Window leak - long screws

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cspwin
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Joined: Wed May 29, 2019 12:25 pm

Window leak - long screws

#1 Post by cspwin »

Hello. I had Alenco windows installed in 2009.

I noticed during the recent rains that our sill has swollen quite a bit (it's pressed board). When I opened up the window on both sides looking for a leak, I noticed that there is a single screw on the inside of channels below where the sash rests when closed. (see pic).

I looked at every window in our home and have not found any other window with a 3+ inch screw in that lower part. Is this a normal place for an installer to put a screw? I removed them and filled the hole with silicone until I can get an official response from Alenco. I'm hoping that I am correct that this is where the leak is coming from. Aside from the dirtiness of the windows, the channels are draining water and are clear. Thank you in advance. I hope my posting this here is ok.


The circles are where the screws are installed:

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WindowsDirectCinci
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Re: Window leak - long screws

#2 Post by WindowsDirectCinci »

That is NOT good place to put that screw and is most likely your source for the leak....they probably could've gotten by with it if your sill was welded and didn't have weep holes, Aside from getting new windows the most reasonable solution (which may work for a while) would be load up the screw with caulk and put it back in........... Those sills are likely multi chambered and caulking the surface wouldn't do much good, you'd need to get the caulk to the last chamber also, which may be a bit difficult to do.

masterext
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Re: Window leak - long screws

#3 Post by masterext »

I agree. Bad place to put a screw. Im guessing the sill was bowed and that was the installers remedy.

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Window leak - long screws

#4 Post by Windows on Washington »

+1.

Pocket sill window...bad combination.

cspwin
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Re: Window leak - long screws

#5 Post by cspwin »

Thank you very much for the quick responses. Ugh. I'll update once I hear what Alenco has decided.

Guy
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Re: Window leak - long screws

#6 Post by Guy »

If you look at that screw in your sill you can see the foam filled hole above it. That’s the hole for the fastener. It seals up as it sets into the foam filled frame. There’s usually a bag of hole plugs to finish it off. The window should have been shimmed at these factory holes. Some frames come with three on each side and others with four. If they didn’t use the proper mounting holes I’ll assume the unit was never squared or plumbed in the opening. This in most cases will void a warranty if not shimmed or fastened properly. The screw through your sill is a voided warranty with any manufacturer. Whoever did that has no clue on proper window installation. He should have shimmed up the opposite corner to get the proper reveal inside. He either had no room to shim up the other side or in my eyes used a lazy fix that makes us installers look like idiots across the board. Since you have what we call a Double, Doublehung it looks like it was mulled together in the factory. This is the center mull piece running up the center of both windows joining them together. If they were done in the field it requires a skilled installer. One thing I see on the picture of the inside is a possible hump in the middle of your sill. That rotting sill should have been replaced for sure. I’d never leave anything like that. Depending on the existing window that was there I’m thinking he may of cut two windows out leaving a split down the center. If it was a continuous board the installer should know that a good installation starts with a level sill. He should of knocked the old shims out and removed that hump before he even tried to set the new one. The Double DH no matter who makes them tend to have leveling issues. My approach is to shim and level one side first. Shims must be inserted at the top center and bottom when needed. After one side is good I do the other side. Sometimes a level can’t be used because the opening is to far out of square. Then we use the reveals where the sash meets the sill pocket. We do the bottom reveal first and work our way up from there. The meeting rails must line up together and then the top reveal.
Your installer used those screws to pull the mulled area down to level the window. You really need to demand a replacement. You should have to pay for a window that’s been made defective. You shouldn’t have to live with keeping the caulking up Year after year. Hopefully you have some interior casing to cover up the inside after it’s dried out.

On another note your installer has box capped the exterior with white smooth coil stock. I can see a faint hump in the middle but my main concern is it looks like the installer punched a trim nail into the sill piece. I see a dot in the sill capping at the middle. This can cause one of those unforeseen leaks you’ll never catch until it’s to late. We never nail the sill capping. We don’t use any fasteners on our capping. It’s bent to fit the accessory grove tightly. If cut properly the pieces snug together and only require a good caulking. I’d have them out and replace the entire opening. Not acceptable in my eyes.
Good Luck with the repairs. Hold your ground and don’t stand down. These types of installations give us who care a bad rep. Most people shake their heads and let it go.

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Window leak - long screws

#7 Post by Windows on Washington »

Good to see a blast from the past on here.

How are you Guy?

Guy
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Re: Window leak - long screws

#8 Post by Guy »

I am doing great my friend. Thanks for asking. How are you doing and how’s business for you?

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Window leak - long screws

#9 Post by Windows on Washington »

We are doing just fine. Obviously...there are challenges every day, but we are blessed.

Guy
Posts: 552
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Re: Window leak - long screws

#10 Post by Guy »

I’m glad you’re doing well! Life is really all about the way we go through it. The Marine Corp taught me long ago to hit life like you own it. Today I don’t have that killer instinct. I’ve learned I can tackle most anything with a positive mind set and good communication skills. Take care brother and we will chat again soon!

cspwin
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Re: Window leak - long screws

#11 Post by cspwin »

Guy wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:31 am If you look at that screw in your sill you can see the foam filled hole above it. That’s the hole for the fastener. It seals up as it sets into the foam filled frame. There’s usually a bag of hole plugs to finish it off. The window should have been shimmed at these factory holes. Some frames come with three on each side and others with four. If they didn’t use the proper mounting holes I’ll assume the unit was never squared or plumbed in the opening. This in most cases will void a warranty if not shimmed or fastened properly. The screw through your sill is a voided warranty with any manufacturer. Whoever did that has no clue on proper window installation. He should have shimmed up the opposite corner to get the proper reveal inside. He either had no room to shim up the other side or in my eyes used a lazy fix that makes us installers look like idiots across the board. Since you have what we call a Double, Doublehung it looks like it was mulled together in the factory. This is the center mull piece running up the center of both windows joining them together. If they were done in the field it requires a skilled installer. One thing I see on the picture of the inside is a possible hump in the middle of your sill. That rotting sill should have been replaced for sure. I’d never leave anything like that. Depending on the existing window that was there I’m thinking he may of cut two windows out leaving a split down the center. If it was a continuous board the installer should know that a good installation starts with a level sill. He should of knocked the old shims out and removed that hump before he even tried to set the new one. The Double DH no matter who makes them tend to have leveling issues. My approach is to shim and level one side first. Shims must be inserted at the top center and bottom when needed. After one side is good I do the other side. Sometimes a level can’t be used because the opening is to far out of square. Then we use the reveals where the sash meets the sill pocket. We do the bottom reveal first and work our way up from there. The meeting rails must line up together and then the top reveal.
Your installer used those screws to pull the mulled area down to level the window. You really need to demand a replacement. You should have to pay for a window that’s been made defective. You shouldn’t have to live with keeping the caulking up Year after year. Hopefully you have some interior casing to cover up the inside after it’s dried out.

On another note your installer has box capped the exterior with white smooth coil stock. I can see a faint hump in the middle but my main concern is it looks like the installer punched a trim nail into the sill piece. I see a dot in the sill capping at the middle. This can cause one of those unforeseen leaks you’ll never catch until it’s to late. We never nail the sill capping. We don’t use any fasteners on our capping. It’s bent to fit the accessory grove tightly. If cut properly the pieces snug together and only require a good caulking. I’d have them out and replace the entire opening. Not acceptable in my eyes.
Good Luck with the repairs. Hold your ground and don’t stand down. These types of installations give us who care a bad rep. Most people shake their heads and let it go.
I haven't been on to check the responses lately, but you have given me quite a bit to look at and think about.

Alenco came out and filled the holes from the screws with Solar Sealer. They had to visit twice. The first time it didn't work on one of the windows which caused me to have to cut out the drywall below the window and soak up the water running down and for my own peace of mind, check to see how much was running down where I couldn't see it. On their second visit, it appears to be sealed well. No leaks, I drenched the windows with tons of water from every direction I could think of.

They refuse to replace the windows. They said the labor was only good for a year, even though they clearly did a very poor job and cannot seem to admit it. I'm at the point where I think I'm going to get all of it pulled out and replaced by another company because I don't really trust the Solar Sealer holding up for a long time.

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HomeSealed
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Re: Window leak - long screws

#12 Post by HomeSealed »

Whomever installed the windows (a dealer?) is responsible for your issue. If Alenco has factory installers then you wouldn't be wrong in pushing this further with them... If it was a separate company however, its the installer that you should call as opposed to the window manufacturer at this point. That screw, as the other guys have stated, is a major no-no. That is not up to industry standard regardless of the term of the labor warranty.

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