Milgard Ultra vs Marvin Infinity vs Starmark Evo vs VistaMark

Ask replacement window questions & get answers!
Post Reply
Message
Author
replwindoz
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:32 pm

Milgard Ultra vs Marvin Infinity vs Starmark Evo vs VistaMark

#1 Post by replwindoz »

We are considering replacing 7-8 windows on the 3rd floor. The current windows are wood windows and the new windows must match the style of the wood windows per the HOA. We have gotten 4 quotes, and we would appreciate any advice or suggestions you have regarding the specific windows that the different companies recommended. Any other advice also much appreciated!

#1 - Milgard Ultra - $11k - Installation Masters Certified Installers
#2 - Marvin Infinity - $15k - Installation Masters Certified Installers
#3 - Starmark Evo (= Okna 7500) - $11k - Not Certified by AWDI nor Installation Masters
#4 - VistaMark (Vinyl Windows w/Exterior Grid) - $6k - AWDI Certified Dealer

Thank you!

User avatar
Windows on Washington
Posts: 5311
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:23 am
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC

Re: Milgard Ultra vs Marvin Infinity vs Starmark Evo vs VistaMark

#2 Post by Windows on Washington »

Quick question...where is the home located? We don't typically see Milgard East of the Rockies or Okna West of the Rockies?

Not sure that option 4 belongs in the conversation with the other 3 to be honest. Options 1 through 3 are all solid. A little bit different between the units, but all well regarded.

On the installation certification, I am a bit torn. We are certified, but it didn't make us a better company. It was more like something to "check the box" that you are a more organized company and certainly more aware of the marketing and outward projection that this certification presents.

Delaware Mike
Posts: 920
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:44 am
Location: South Jersey, Delaware, Philadelphia area

Re: Milgard Ultra vs Marvin Infinity vs Starmark Evo vs VistaMark

#3 Post by Delaware Mike »

Installation Masters training and testing is over 90% based upon new construction and various flashing techniques for sills/thresholds and the face of sheathing to rough openings geared towards new construction. If someone wasn't even in construction but read the directions on any number of any of the DuPont flashing products which takes all of 5 minutes, they could easily pass the test.

Unfortunately for retrofit type of window installs, there really isn't any trade school or training outside of being taught by experienced mentors or just figuring things out.

User avatar
Randy
Posts: 1209
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:26 am
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Milgard Ultra vs Marvin Infinity vs Starmark Evo vs VistaMark

#4 Post by Randy »

WoW and Delaware Mike are correct. While IM is primarily geared towards new construction installation, it’s being used by many replacement window companies to market themselves to homeowners in a way that infers some level of superior knowledge or ability.

I think AAMA is hoping that eventually all window contractors will be forced into getting it, not because they believe in the value, but because customers come to expect it. Much like BBB membership.

replwindoz
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:32 pm

Re: Milgard Ultra vs Marvin Infinity vs Starmark Evo vs VistaMark

#5 Post by replwindoz »

Windows on Washington wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:33 am Quick question...where is the home located? We don't typically see Milgard East of the Rockies or Okna West of the Rockies?

Not sure that option 4 belongs in the conversation with the other 3 to be honest. Options 1 through 3 are all solid. A little bit different between the units, but all well regarded.

On the installation certification, I am a bit torn. We are certified, but it didn't make us a better company. It was more like something to "check the box" that you are a more organized company and certainly more aware of the marketing and outward projection that this certification presents.
We are in the South. I had to use Google Maps but I believe we are east of the Rockies, in case it is pertinent.

If options 1-3 are pretty much equivalent, how would you recommend choosing which one to go with?

Thanks, also, for your feedback regarding the certification. I was hoping this would be a way to help narrow down the companies that we could use. What other criterion would you suggest?

User avatar
Windows on Washington
Posts: 5311
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:23 am
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC

Re: Milgard Ultra vs Marvin Infinity vs Starmark Evo vs VistaMark

#6 Post by Windows on Washington »

If you assume that the installations are the same, the product criteria would the evaluation tool. Things like Performance Grade or Design Pressure, Thermal Performance (U-Factor), Air Infiltration, etc.

This also assumes that your feelings on the looks are equal.

replwindoz
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:32 pm

Re: Milgard Ultra vs Marvin Infinity vs Starmark Evo vs VistaMark

#7 Post by replwindoz »

Windows on Washington wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:32 pm If you assume that the installations are the same, the product criteria would the evaluation tool. Things like Performance Grade or Design Pressure, Thermal Performance (U-Factor), Air Infiltration, etc.

This also assumes that your feelings on the looks are equal.
Thanks so much!

Re U-Factor, Air Infiltration, etc. seem fairly standardized and easy to find via NFRC.

For Performance Grade, I am having a harder time making sense of it. I found the following values:

Milgard Ultra - https://www.milgard.com/sites/default/f ... -ultra.pdf - only single hung (vs double hung which we are getting) appears to be tested and they list "Structural Class" only rather than Performance Grade as LC-PG30. Is "Structural Class" the same thing as "Design Pressure"? How would one judge "Structural Class" against "Performance Grade"? Also, it is not clear if they are using the 2005 or 2008 standard for the ratings (101/IS2/A440-05 vs 101/IS2/A440-08).

Marvin Infinity - http://www.search.amscert.com/Default.a ... gn=%3d&dp= - this one appears to have a "Performance Rating" of "Class LC-PG30". Again, is this the same thing as "Performance Grade" even though it says "Performance Rating"?

Okna 7500/Starmark Evo - https://www.starmarkwindows.com/media/c ... 500_dh.pdf - they list R55 "AAMA Rating performance grade" using the 2005 standard (101/IS2/A440-05). Interestingly, if I understand the performance gradings correctly, the bare minimum performance grade for R is 15 PSF and LC would be 25. Given this is the case, why wouldn't Okna/Starmark list the grade as LC-55 or even AW-55?

Thanks!

User avatar
Windows on Washington
Posts: 5311
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:23 am
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC

Re: Milgard Ultra vs Marvin Infinity vs Starmark Evo vs VistaMark

#8 Post by Windows on Washington »

The air infiltration number on the NFRC sticker is going to be rounded up and is usually indicated as 0.30 or below (i.e. pass or fail). There is a huge spread from that 0.00 to 0.30 number in terms of performance.

https://aamanet.org/pages/performance-class-overview

Let me check with Oberon for some input as well.

replwindoz
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:32 pm

Re: Milgard Ultra vs Marvin Infinity vs Starmark Evo vs VistaMark

#9 Post by replwindoz »

Windows on Washington wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:09 pm The air infiltration number on the NFRC sticker is going to be rounded up and is usually indicated as 0.30 or below (i.e. pass or fail). There is a huge spread from that 0.00 to 0.30 number in terms of performance.

https://aamanet.org/pages/performance-class-overview

Let me check with Oberon for some input as well.
Thanks so much for the helpful comment re the air infiltration number on the NFRC sticker, for the AAMA link (it sounds like higher performance grade = better ability to withstand strong, wet winds such as in a storm?), and for checking with Oberon for some input.

Lastly, I realize Okna doesn't test for STC and OITC, but if you have any general idea re the numbers one might get from a double-pane Argon filled Starmark Evo window to compare with the others, would be very helpful!

Thanks again for all of your helpful advice!

User avatar
Windows on Washington
Posts: 5311
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:23 am
Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC

Re: Milgard Ultra vs Marvin Infinity vs Starmark Evo vs VistaMark

#10 Post by Windows on Washington »

Assuming they both use the same strength glass, they should be about the same.

Where they can yield differences is with the air infiltration numbers. Sound travels on air so if you have a leakier window, it will be leakier with regards to sound as well.

replwindoz
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:32 pm

Re: Milgard Ultra vs Marvin Infinity vs Starmark Evo vs VistaMark

#11 Post by replwindoz »

Windows on Washington wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:52 pm Assuming they both use the same strength glass, they should be about the same.

Where they can yield differences is with the air infiltration numbers. Sound travels on air so if you have a leakier window, it will be leakier with regards to sound as well.
I see - that makes sense. Thanks so much!

User avatar
HomeSealed
Posts: 2996
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:46 pm
Location: Milwaukee, Madison, SE Wisconsin

Re: Milgard Ultra vs Marvin Infinity vs Starmark Evo vs VistaMark

#12 Post by HomeSealed »

The Starmark should be the pretty clear winner as performance goes both thermally and structurally once you have all of those numbers aggregated. The Infinity is a nice, well built unit, as well, just not in the same space efficiency wise, although there could be other options that could point that direction for you like a stainable or other color painted interior.

Not familiar with Vistamark.

Milgard is decent, it fares well against the many less than stellar units offered on the West coast. Not quite as well IMO when going against some of the cold-weather-born unit in the East and Midwest.

replwindoz
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:32 pm

Re: Milgard Ultra vs Marvin Infinity vs Starmark Evo vs VistaMark

#13 Post by replwindoz »

HomeSealed wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:56 pm The Starmark should be the pretty clear winner as performance goes both thermally and structurally once you have all of those numbers aggregated. The Infinity is a nice, well built unit, as well, just not in the same space efficiency wise, although there could be other options that could point that direction for you like a stainable or other color painted interior.

Not familiar with Vistamark.

Milgard is decent, it fares well against the many less than stellar units offered on the West coast. Not quite as well IMO when going against some of the cold-weather-born unit in the East and Midwest.
Thanks so much for sharing your advice re the different options!

Post Reply