Changes to Starmark 900

[WindowsDirectCinci]

Prices have definitely and will continue to rise. I had 1 manufacturer which I do not use any longer have 2 price increases last year. Did Okna get rid of the paintable stainable laminate all together or just on the Starmark? There are other manufacturers that use that same interior. Vytex, Sunrise, Renewal by Anderson and I’m sure there are others.

[Windows on Washington]

Pretty sure that was the only line they had it in, and it is now gone.

[masterext]

Paintable was only available in Starmark. Every manufacturer had at least one or two price increases this year alone.

[HomeSealed]

Product price increases aplenty, but that doesn't even address the bigger factor in my experience which is labor. Around here we are up nearly 60% or so just in the last few years. That goes for piecework rates as well as hourly.... It may be an extreme case here in my market, however I know for certain that rates are through the roof everywhere as the amount of work is plentiful, and the number of guys to do it is dwindling by the day... Either way, you shouldn't be shocked at all that the price is much higher from two years ago.

[facesnorth]

Why should window product or labor prices increase at a rate any higher than standard inflation?

[facesnorth]

So, thoughts on comparison of quality of Provia Aeris vs Starmark? My reading suggests that Provia makes a better door than window. Is there a better quality and performing window with paintable interior?

[masterext]

Why should window product or labor prices increase at a rate any higher than standard inflation?

Do you honestly think the cost of insurance only increases with the rate of inflation? All material costs have risen substantially in the past two years and tarrifs dont help either. Even though products are produced in the US, many components or parts of machinery are made in china.
We are almost at full employment thanks to a business friendly administration and that in itself raises labor costs not to mention labor shortages for construction related business.

[toddinmn]

I haven’t seen my rates go up much more than inflation rates for insurance, materials or labor unless we’re talking health insurance rates. 60% labor rate increases seems a bit crazy, that would put my employes above union scale at this point. Either way the smarts one charge the most they can and can keep it there. Sounds like I’m due for a price hike.

[HomeSealed]

Why should window product or labor prices increase at a rate any higher than standard inflation?

As mentioned previously, supply vs demand primarily (mainly on the labor side). Many other external factors come into play, but that classic is the big one.

@Todd, a highly qualified, quality window installer can make at or or even more than what a journeyman union carpenter can per hr around here. I had a "helper" (very limited installation experience) apply the other day that was making $26 per hour at a competitor and was looking for an increase... The part that is even crazier is that most guys would prefer a 1099 independent route as they make much more than that, actually clearing 50%+ more even after paying a helper and figuring for other expenses. Hit me in the contractor forum if you want to talk further about that.... I will say I suspect that the market will correct itself as companies are forced to form their own training programs to end the bidding war for these guys, but who knows. This younger generation seems to be averse to, and have minimal respect for those who work with their hands.

[toddinmn]

I would agree they can make more or less than Union if they are a subcontractor but most I know do not.To match Union pay scale I would have to pay about $53 an hour for a laborer and about $58 an hour for a carpenter. Never had a employee that wanted to be sub unless they were a sub already . Don’t see how they are going to clear 50% more being a sub unless they have Trumps accountants. I’d say $26 for a good Laborer is right in there and high for a laborer with limited skills. If labor has gone up 60% I would have been paying my Installer only $22 an hour a few years ago.

[HomeSealed]

I would agree they can make more or less than Union if they are a subcontractor but most I know do not.To match Union pay scale I would have to pay about $53 an hour for a laborer and about $58 an hour for a carpenter. Never had a employee that wanted to be sub unless they were a sub already . Don’t see how they are going to clear 50% more being a sub unless they have Trumps accountants. I’d say $26 for a good Laborer is right in there and high for a laborer with limited skills. If labor has gone up 60% I would have been paying my Installer only $22 an hour a few years ago.

No, I'm saying that employee installers can be at union scale for their hourly rate (albeit with fewer benefits), "subs" are much higher of course. Either way, there are window installers (not crews, but installers) clearing safely over the six figure threshold after expenses, before taxes...
I have no idea how much labor has gone up for you. For me its its up as much as 60% in some cases and you would be the first person that I've talked to in another market stating that it had not substantially exceeded the rate of inflation. That's a good thing for you though certainly, I'm envious.

[toddinmn]

Sorry, I meant total compensation or prevailing wage .
Yes the numbers come closer in this case but still trail. Without zero benefits at scale a laborer is at $34 and installer at $37 approximately . You’d have to pay your another 30% more and my guess is much lesser benefits.
I could see subs that are using subs or employees clearing that mark but not many individual subs are making that I know. My employee cost hasn’t gone up much at all but I have had the same prior for about 5 years. I have told one of my subs to actually charge me more.
The one thing that has significantly increased is medical insurance, I have dropped mine and do not offer it for my employees. That is one reason why it is hard to match a Union compensation package.

[HomeSealed]

Not exactly sure what you are trying to say Todd, whether you are questioning my numbers or simply sharing what you see in your area? My intent is to simply share our situation here as an example, which is a very sizable increase in labor expense. We do offer health insurance to our employees, although certainly not at the price that they could get it in a union, and yes, the cost of that has certainly gone up as well.

[facesnorth]

The bubble will have to break and at these rates I'm not even able to recoup through either energy savings nor equity value increase in my market.

[toddinmn]

I was questioning the 60% number mostly, But mostly arguing for the sake of arguing.