replacing exterior blind stop

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amyb
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:42 pm

replacing exterior blind stop

#1 Post by amyb » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:52 pm

Hello, Is it possible to replace an exterior blind stop? I recently had replacement windows installed. Aesthetically on the outside the job looks sloppy because the old exterior blind stops which are coated with thick layers of old cracking paint are sandwiched between the nice new window and nice new brick molding. The installer says the exterior blind stops (which are one-by-threes) cannot be removed because they are a structural part of the house and window casing and form the outside part of the old window weight pocket. I find it hard to believe that a one-by anything could be a critical structural component, but what do I know. I just know it looks messy to have that one old crusty piece around all of my brand new windows and new brick molding. Please educate me!! Thanks, amy

TheWindowNerd
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Re: replacing exterior blind stop

#2 Post by TheWindowNerd » Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:11 am

I am confused as to why you have new brick moulding.
The storm window stop is not structural, as in weight bearinr, but is intregal, it goes behind the brick moulding, sometimes the jamb has a tongue that goes into it as well.
The easy fix is to bend sooth aluminum trim coil angles and back caulk them over the "messy".
I would call it a small finish cap.

amyb
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:42 pm

Re: replacing exterior blind stop

#3 Post by amyb » Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:53 am

The home is over 60 years old. The brick molding, windows, and everything else was original to the house and not in very good shape - not well maintained over the years. Molding was cracked and rotten in some places. Everything has been painted several times and never with proper preparation. So it was easier to remove the molding and replace it than try to clean it up and repaint it. I was given the alumninum clad option but the home is also in a historic district and the aluminum clad would not fit the historic character of the neighborhood. There have been multiple other issues with the installation. This is the last bit we are trying to work out, but they only want to do the very least possible. I was told that all of the old material would be removed and replaced. I believe they don't want to remove the exterior blind stop, not because it is impossible or unsafe, but because it would be a huge pain for them to do it (especially now after they have already installed they windows), and they are hoping I will just cave with this excuse. They told me they could not remove this piece because it was structural. I just want to know if I have reason to insist that those pieces (exterior blind stops) be replaced as originally promised. Or if they are correct in saying those should not be removed/replaced at all.
Last edited by amyb on Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Window4U (IL)
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Re: replacing exterior blind stop

#4 Post by Window4U (IL) » Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:36 pm

Your intuition is correct. The stop is not structural in any way.

amyb
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:42 pm

Re: replacing exterior blind stop

#5 Post by amyb » Sat Jun 25, 2011 5:43 pm

Thank you Window 4U (IL)!

Takeadoe
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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:12 pm

Re: replacing exterior blind stop

#6 Post by Takeadoe » Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:35 pm

Folks,

First, in full disclosure, everything I know about windows, I've learned this weekend! I've decide that because the outside sills are structurally sound and can either be wrapped with aluminum or covered with vinyl, and I can replace the casing/trim with pvc board, that I would go ahead and move forward with a pocket rather than a full-frame replacement. Then I discovered what I believe to be either the blind stop or the rabbet of the blind stop. I've put an "X" on this in the attached photo. I initially thought this was a problem for two reasons. First, I thought that I had to install the windows from the inside and that this is what the new window frame would rest against. With plans to "resurface" the sill and replace the outside casing ahead of new siding, I thought, "everything is going to be new but this!" :(. I can't live with that. Then I discovered that I could actually install the window from the outside, using the interior stops to hold the window in place and just get rid of these blind stops, or so I thought. So, could you kind folks out there that have been down this dusty road help me out and set me straight where ever I've strayed! I don't think this will be news to anyone, but on the other windows that still have storm windows in place, the storms are screwed to these blind stops. Am I looking at blind stops. Can I remove them? Other?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Don't worry about making me feel dumb. I don't mind. I have a real good excuse. I don't do this everyday, but I would love to learn! :D .

Mike

http://s806.photobucket.com/user/Takead ... f.jpg.html

Delaware Mike
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:44 am
Location: South Jersey, Delaware, Philadelphia area

Re: replacing exterior blind stop

#7 Post by Delaware Mike » Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:52 pm

That era wood window and exterior stop cannot just be undone via means of pry bar. It's kind of mortised into the frame design and it runs underneath of the brick molding. Most window installers when performing and outside/in type of insert pocket replacement window project will chisel or cut these stops off and implement exterior frame sill and brickmold capping. The capping will cover the missing stop area and provide a cosmetically finished product.

If you wanted to install new PVC stops you would have to somewhat in a precise manner, cut the stops flush with the interior edge of the brick molding to provide a nice even flat surface to mount the new stops to. Pain the backside in my opinion. Once the replacement window is placed in the pocket against the interior stops the exterior vinyl screen track frame profile gets in the way of any kind of nail gun for efficient stop installation. It can be done but there is very little room for small stops and trying to get the nozzle of the exterior sealant to seal the stop is also a pain if the window is tightly measured.

Takeadoe
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Re: replacing exterior blind stop

#8 Post by Takeadoe » Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:23 pm

Delaware Mike - Thank you! A few more bits of information and another photo might help. First, this is a rental that my wife and I are hoping to purchase. I'm not mentioning that because I want to short cut anything, but because I'm hoping to do (after learning :? ) as much of this as I can. I don't want to pay someone to do a pocket install for me. I'm not a complete idiot. I've got the tools and I've got the time so I want to try this myself. Plus, I have two other rentals that will need windows and if I can learn here, it will save me elsewhere too. Couple of things. First, I've added another picture to give you a better idea of the casing/trim around the window. It is 1x4 stuff, not brick molding (maybe brick molding is a generic term, but the brick molding I've installed at my brick ranch looks nothing like this 1x stock). I don't know if that matters. But, I thought if I can replace that with 1x4 PVC board, and cover the sill with those extruded vinyl covers, the only unsightly thing left would be those stops. Am I missing something? If I left them in place and installed from the inside, would the new window cover those up by chance? I don't want it to look like the job was done by a rookie! As I look at my picture, even if I removed them, something has to go there to hide the jamb. I know they may not look that sound, but the sill and subsill are actually sound. I hate to do a full frame replacement, but if I'm going to end up spending as much on detail work with a pocket install, I might as well replace the entire frame. I like the sill and subsill. They add character to the window.

Thanks again.

Mike
http://s806.photobucket.com/user/Takead ... 9.jpg.html

Delaware Mike
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Re: replacing exterior blind stop

#9 Post by Delaware Mike » Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:35 pm

My bad. I guess that I didn't look all that closely at the pictures. If those stops are tacked in place you may be able to pull them. Basic carpentry skills, chop saw, portable table saw, along with a means of correctly fastening all of the PVC boards and you're in business. They make some nice white PVC crayon fill sticks too. I like to fasten my PVC boards with the Cortex fastener system.

Takeadoe
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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:12 pm

Re: replacing exterior blind stop

#10 Post by Takeadoe » Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:04 pm

No worries. Not familiar with the Cortex fastener system, but I'll look into it. May, I ask, what would a contractor do with that outside if I paid someone? I've watched a ton of pocket install videos on youtube and none address the outside. Is that because they typically aren't in the kind of shape that my windows are? Should I be looking at a full frame install instead? Am I fighting an uphill battle?

Mike

Delaware Mike
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:44 am
Location: South Jersey, Delaware, Philadelphia area

Re: replacing exterior blind stop

#11 Post by Delaware Mike » Tue Jul 05, 2016 6:16 am

We would be capping that, however since you have indicated the historic desire approach with maintenance free PVC exterior casings you just need to be creative. If you can rip down some PVC 3/4" to the same exact size as the exterior stops provided they're tacked in place, you can install them into that void and then install the face trim boards as casings.

You could bend up in siding brake just a little transitional cap and tie it in to the new window and behind the trim board? You could possibly install the window further towards the outside of the window pocket and just caulk the new PVC trim board to the window, however this would require wider interior stops as now the gap is on the inside. The window stool would need to be adjusted in terms of the horns and rabbet if possible.

Takeadoe
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:12 pm

Re: replacing exterior blind stop

#12 Post by Takeadoe » Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:04 pm

Thanks Delaware Mike. I will keep you and the group posted as this project progresses.

Mike

Guy
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Location: Minnesota

Re: replacing exterior blind stop

#13 Post by Guy » Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:00 pm

Just my little two cents here. We cut our blind stops off with vibrating saw like a Multimaster. This gives us a nice clean cut that we can nail a new stop in place. You must make sure you screw down the existing brickmould or frame parts together tightly. Otherwise the loose wood will just vibrate you silly. You need a steady arm and eye to get a nice cut. But once the old stops are removed you insert the new unit and fasten in place after insulation you can nail new stops back where the others were cut from. We usually Cap with aluminum but we've also caulked the cut line to cover any imperfections. Then caulk the new stop to the window. This isn't a job for a novice. This requires concentration and patience. But it looks nice every time

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