Sill replacement & Window Contractors

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farroar
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Sill replacement & Window Contractors

#1 Post by farroar »

I have 18 windows that need to be replaced. They are the originals for our house which was built in 2004. Almost all of the sills are rotted to a degree. No water damage below the windows and the rest of the trim looks okay.

I've had 4 different replacement window companies out and of course I've gotten a WIDE range of opinions and price estimates!

Pella says they need to do full-frame window replacements. Andersen and the other two local companies say they can repair the sill and do standard replacement windows.

Of course, full-frame replacement is probably the best way to go since it gets rid of all of the old components. Trouble with this is that all trim would have to be pulled off, repainted, etc... and of course it is costly and we might to be able to match existing trim in the house.

The sill replacement option is attractive since it is less expensive and doesn't require all the trim work to be changed.

One contractor told me that they will actually existing window sill back to behind where the rot is and replace from that point forward, not pull out the sill entirely. I'm skeptical of this. IMO this would leave traces of rot on the edges.

To me, sill replacement is replacement, not repair.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

masterext
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Re: Sill replacement & Window Contractors

#2 Post by masterext »

Repairing a sill is a very easy fix. I wouldnt base my decision on a full frame tear out on some rotted sills.
Fyi, many consumers mistake chipped paint as sill rot when in fact its just chipped paint.

farroar
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Re: Sill replacement & Window Contractors

#3 Post by farroar »

These are rotted for sure. Spongy to the touch.

I agree however, I don't want to rip and replace unless there is a need for it. But, this one contractor was the best 'deal' and uses Soft-lite imperial windows which I like. His idea of just cutting off the rotted portions isn't a good fix in my opinion, especially if you are saying it truly is straightforward to remove the sill entirely.

Other red flag here is that this installation company has no installation warranty.

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Sill replacement & Window Contractors

#4 Post by Windows on Washington »

No reason NOT to have an installation warranty if you do your job properly.

As referenced above, removing and replacing the sill is easy as part of an insert application. That would not steer me towards a full tear out from a functional application. There are reasons for full tear outs, that just isn't one of them.

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TheWindowNerd
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Re: Sill replacement & Window Contractors

#5 Post by TheWindowNerd »

If your existing windows are a primed wood DH, then the sill can be rotted but not enough to technically require that you replace them.
I would go over each window and agree to what point the sill is going to be replaced and with what. Primed 5/4 x 4 or something else. Full sill replacement requires a lot of skill and and 5/4 x 8 if your walls are 4 9/16". They will then be capped and sealed with the rest of the exterior if this is a standard insert install.

I do like the SL LS, but a no labor warranty is a no go, one year minimum, two year preferable.

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HomeSealed
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Re: Sill replacement & Window Contractors

#6 Post by HomeSealed »

Mostly agree with the pros above.

1) No labor warranty is an immediate disqualifier in my book. Are you sure that you aren't possibly misunderstanding them? That would be very rare, at least to admit it. Most times "no labor warranty" occurs when the low price contractor (that claims to have one) is chosen and he simply goes out of business not long after.

2)Regarding the sill, this is semantics IMO. As long as you don't have someone suggesting that you just leave it in and cover it up, chopping out the bad wood is as acceptable as entirely replacing the piece. It really depends on the exact circumstances as to which would be preferable. As WN alluded to, replacing the sill can be somewhat invasive depending on the application.

farroar
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Re: Sill replacement & Window Contractors

#7 Post by farroar »

I asked him on the warranty, he said "we don't have anything specific for the installation but I can write something up for you". That would leave a bit too much open for interpretation.

As far as the condition of the sills:
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Windows on Washington
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Re: Sill replacement & Window Contractors

#8 Post by Windows on Washington »

Don't want to kill the guy if they are a smaller shop and don't have a labor warranty. Not sure why this is the first time it has come up, but his willingness to issue one is a good sign.

If that is the extent of the rot and it doesn't go more than halfway into the sill, I would just chop out that section and replace it in a cut and stitch format. The sills are going to be clad and that is not a load bearing section.

What is there does not necessitate a full tear out.

farroar
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Re: Sill replacement & Window Contractors

#9 Post by farroar »

Tear out not needed for sure, but looks can be deceiving with rot. The edges could have allowed water to wick up the sides and cause issues not seen. A cut in the sill is a weak point no matter how you look at it. I do respect that he is willing to write something in, but that gives too much wiggle room. My house is the biggest investment I have and these windows need to be solid for at least 10 years.

I also had a roofer in the past that had a similar kind of 'warranty' on their work. Got royally screwed when it started leaking less than a year later.

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toddinmn
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Re: Sill replacement & Window Contractors

#10 Post by toddinmn »

Splicing in a sill in properly is no more of a weak point then where the window frame is fastened to the sill.
Taking one all the way out is more time consuming and can create more problems.

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HomeSealed
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Re: Sill replacement & Window Contractors

#11 Post by HomeSealed »

toddinmn wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 10:08 am Splicing in a sill in properly is no more of a weak point then where the window frame is fastened to the sill.
Taking one all the way out is more time consuming and can create more problems.
Agreed.

@farroar, you are getting advice from some pros that have installed and serviced thousands upon thousands of windows along with many other types of carpentry over decades. While I understand why you may have reservations about the possible "unseen" issues, its largely unfounded unless someone doesn't care about what they are doing (in which case you have bigger problems). At the end of the day, choose whatever you are comfortable with. If you'd prefer the guy that wants to fully replace the sills, go for it.

As for the warranty, I'm a little more skeptical of a warranty that someone whips together. With that said, I'd make sure that I'm dealing with an established, reputable company either way. Statistics say 10 years in business and a couple million dollars in annual revenue drastically improve your odds of dealing with a quality company that will be around to service that warranty down the road. None of that guarantees success nor does a lack of it guarantee failure, but at the end of the day most folks want those odds in their favor, and at the highest level possible. To be fair, there are $20mm companies that do poor work, but for every one of them there are 100+ "chuck in a truck" type outfits. This may or may not apply to your decision, but the "scribbled napkin" style warranty sounds like it may.

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TheWindowNerd
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Re: Sill replacement & Window Contractors

#12 Post by TheWindowNerd »

I appreciate Brandons straight forward and articulate answer.

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Sill replacement & Window Contractors

#13 Post by Windows on Washington »

Agreed Window Nerd.

Well put Home Sealed.

farroar
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Re: Sill replacement & Window Contractors

#14 Post by farroar »

I do really appreciate the input on this. It's been a lot of research for me and I've learned a lot. Sometimes the amount of experience someone has results in them 'forgetting' that they know so much that homeowners don't know. The assumptions I make are based on lack of experience. It's also a bit annoying that there difference between the sales side and the contractor side.

The contractors that I've had out are to the point and tell you what they can do, but sales makes big generalizations and make it seem they are the only ones who do it 'correctly'.

But, I love these types of forums. People aren't trying to do anything but be an honest and unbiased resource.

I do have one last question on this whole sill topic. Most recent comment I got from a dealer was that they cap the sill. Could this cause an issue by trapping moisture? Or is this a typical thing when installing replacement windows.

Thanks again!

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Sill replacement & Window Contractors

#15 Post by Windows on Washington »

Capping a sill does not trap moisture if done properly.

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