Vinyl failing on new windows

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HomeSealed
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Re: Vinyl failing on new windows

#16 Post by HomeSealed »

coinmls wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:05 pm @HomeSealed: No, the windows will not clean up. You cannot clean the discoloration which again, correlates to areas hit hardest by the sun (less or no discoloration for windows that get less or no sun). Doing some light Googling other Internet users indicate that the vinyl is breaking down.
Fair enough. I've not seen vinyl degradation due to the sun with that type of appearance, however I'm in WI not AZ. Suffice it to say that the sun that we see here isn't quite as damaging as yours.

Not to belabor the point, but have you actually attempted to clean it or are you just assuming that they won't be able to be cleaned? If you have, what was used? I wouldn't go bonkers spraying harsh solvents all over, but again, scrub with some mineral spirits and fine steel wool in an inconspicuous location just to see what you get. That's not going to void a warranty. Any installer that says he's never had to do the same to clean off some foam or caulk excess is a liar.

Its not out of the realm of possibility that there could be some airborne contaminants that have caused that (as opposed to the sun) as another possibility. Also, fwiw, most manufacturers have language excluding uniform fading and discoloration due to weathering, and also due to environmental contaminants as well. Hopefully you are able to determine the cause and find a fair solution either way.

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TheWindowNerd
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Re: Vinyl failing on new windows

#17 Post by TheWindowNerd »

I do not think the tact on this is legal.
I think it is public embarrassment of Toll.
They have already corrected others, they will correct yours too.
I would expect the next Toll developement wont be sing those windows.

coinmls
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Re: Vinyl failing on new windows

#18 Post by coinmls »

TheWindowNerd wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:37 pm I do not think the tact on this is legal.
I think it is public embarrassment of Toll.
They have already corrected others, they will correct yours too.
I would expect the next Toll developement wont be sing those windows.
Yes, but back to my questions. Is painting the windows "correcting" the problem or just covering it up? Will my painted windows last as long as non-defective windows would have lasted? Will painted windows cost me more because I'll have to repaint them every few years, which is a maintenance item I shouldn't have to deal with had "good" windows been used?

coinmls
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Re: Vinyl failing on new windows

#19 Post by coinmls »

coinmls wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:14 am
TheWindowNerd wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:37 pm I do not think the tact on this is legal.
I think it is public embarrassment of Toll.
They have already corrected others, they will correct yours too.
I would expect the next Toll developement wont be sing those windows.
Yes, but back to my questions. Is painting the windows "correcting" the problem or just covering it up? Will my painted windows last (in function and appearance) as long as non-defective windows would have lasted? Will painted windows cost me more because I'll have to repaint them every few years, which is a maintenance item I shouldn't have to deal with had "good" windows been used?

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TheWindowNerd
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Re: Vinyl failing on new windows

#20 Post by TheWindowNerd »

To be blunt, track builders use crappy windows.
I my area, Philly, the home of Toll. Many new construction homes will be lucky to make it ten years before they start to replace their windows. No facts but my observation is that builders have always been squezzing the penny. The common use of IGU and the cos control leads to seal failure, as well as a general planned obsulence and lowering of quality.

Painting will do both. Literally cover up the look and provide satisfactory look. Duration only need last as long as original warranty.

coinmls
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Re: Vinyl failing on new windows

#21 Post by coinmls »

TheWindowNerd wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:00 am To be blunt, track builders use crappy windows.
I my area, Philly, the home of Toll. Many new construction homes will be lucky to make it ten years before they start to replace their windows. No facts but my observation is that builders have always been squezzing the penny. The common use of IGU and the cos control leads to seal failure, as well as a general planned obsulence and lowering of quality.

Painting will do both. Literally cover up the look and provide satisfactory look. Duration only need last as long as original warranty.
I agree and never expected to have high quality windows. But I did expect them to maintain their appearance and function for a reasonable time. I will respectfully disagree with how long the paint needs to last. The functional life of a product and the warranty period are two different things. A new Chevy comes with a 3 year warranty, but everyone expects the car to maintain its function and appearance for a much longer period. If the paint on your new car fails in the first year, they can't use a can of Krylon spray paint on the affected area that will last for a few years and call it good. If there's a problem with the leather seats, they can' just give you a pair of seat covers that will last until the end of the warranty and call it good. Anything that reduces the total life of the window or increases my maintenance costs is a loss for me.

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HomeSealed
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Re: Vinyl failing on new windows

#22 Post by HomeSealed »

coinmls wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 10:14 am
TheWindowNerd wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:37 pm I do not think the tact on this is legal.
I think it is public embarrassment of Toll.
They have already corrected others, they will correct yours too.
I would expect the next Toll developement wont be sing those windows.
Yes, but back to my questions. Is painting the windows "correcting" the problem or just covering it up? Will my painted windows last as long as non-defective windows would have lasted? Will painted windows cost me more because I'll have to repaint them every few years, which is a maintenance item I shouldn't have to deal with had "good" windows been used?
That's been answered already: Paint is not going to last as long an extruded color.

That said, using your car analogy, if its done well, it should make the car's paint job and leather seats look like new for at least as long as the vehicle's expected useful life before the engine blows and the wheels fall off. As TWN alluded to, 10 years is a reasonable service life expectation for a builder grade window. A properly prepped and executed paint job should last that long or longer.
IMO, there are way to many unknowns here to say whether or not that is a fair solution, whether it would be appropriate to attempt to use the "public embarrassment" tactic, etc. As I said before, I do hope that a fair and just solution can be found.

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