replacement casement window options?

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Windows on Washington
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Re: replacement casement window options?

#16 Post by Windows on Washington »

I would argue that the vast majority of folks getting "stung" are by companies that sell cheap. Contrast the BBB reviews of a price only vendor with a higher end vendor.

57ringo
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Re: replacement casement window options?

#17 Post by 57ringo »

Yes, 11 openings in the house. All the companies I have gotten bids from are from well known window companies in eastern ks with good reviews.

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Re: replacement casement window options?

#18 Post by 57ringo »

Another question I have is about the ratings. I've read where the ratings on like the fiberglass Marvin windows is on a large size window and the vinyl windows ( for some companies) is measure from one that's 12"x12". Is that true? Also read where the "good " ratings on a new vinyl window isn't nearly as good a year or so down the road because the vinyl expands and contracts much more than the glass does and tends to leak so it doesn't perform like the tests show nearly as well as time goes on....is that true? There is so much back and forth information on the forums that it get a bit confusing.

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HomeSealed
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Re: replacement casement window options?

#19 Post by HomeSealed »

57ringo wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:16 pm Another question I have is about the ratings. I've read where the ratings on like the fiberglass Marvin windows is on a large size window and the vinyl windows ( for some companies) is measure from one that's 12"x12". Is that true? Also read where the "good " ratings on a new vinyl window isn't nearly as good a year or so down the road because the vinyl expands and contracts much more than the glass does and tends to leak so it doesn't perform like the tests show nearly as well as time goes on....is that true? There is so much back and forth information on the forums that it get a bit confusing.
Most of that nonsense is from sales reps in the home where they can't be corrected.

The fact of the matter is that there is certainly some misinformation out there, but it's generally offered by fiberglass and wood window salesmen (and lower quality vinyl guys)-- which adds another level of irony when they criticize vinyl windows in general.

U values and other thermal ratings will be consistent across the board. The "tricks" most commonly played with these ratings are:
1) Quoting "center of glass" u values, talking about the R value of the frame, etc. The true rating is the total unit U value (includes glass, frame, etc as a fully assembled and finished product).
2) Using glass that is inappropriate for a given climate (generally speaking) in order to be able to show a better U value. This would include using glass that is intended for warm climates that is darker (cuts solar heat) in a cold region, even though we'd prefer to gain some of that "free heat" for better overall efficiency. Also, using a coating like surface 4 low e which won't necessarily make the glass less efficient, but will decimate the condensation resistance of the window. This is worrisome in cold regions, but less so in more moderate areas where condensation isn't as much of a concern.

The other items that you mentioned pertaining to size and an expansion/contraction are more commonly used when it comes to structural ratings. More specifically, they are used by companies that have a window with poor air infiltration ratings to try and mislead you into believing that is not the case in a real world application. That's simply not true.

-Expansion: Yes, vinyl will expand and contract more than fiberglass, however the amount is minimal, and more importantly, these windows are designed with the inherent qualities of the material in mind. For instance, vinyl windows generally have more weather stripping, sash interlocks, material specific manufacturing tolerances, and some other redundancies to ensure performance on day one as well as day 5475. In fact, the better the initial ratings are, the better indication that you can still expect high performance year down the road.

- Size: this one is so far off that it's down right silly. For one, a "gateway" size is specified based on the type of structural testing being done. Yes, a company could test other sizes and get different ratings, however those wouldn't be the certified rating. A company would be pretty sleazy to quote those other ratings in a sales setting, but yes, unfortunately it does happen in some cases. If in doubt, ask for a structural test report.
Secondly, the amount of air leakage measured is averaged out over the size of the unit, so in fact, a LARGER window will actually have better results. This is why when companies DO act shady and quote an air leakage rating for a size that is not certified, it typically for an extraordinarily large window, not a tiny one. Given that this is darn near a bald faced lie, more frequently you might see someone stating the ratings of a casement or picture window without specifying that, even though most common operator is double hung.

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Re: replacement casement window options?

#20 Post by 57ringo »

I received a bid for Sunrise restoration windows today for $22,721 and a bid from Softlite for $21,340

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Windows on Washington
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Re: replacement casement window options?

#21 Post by Windows on Washington »

As referenced above, two really good casement options and window brands. The Restorations is one of the flagship lines in the Sunrise line up and their casement is really good. What model Soft-Lite was quoted in the the other than casement operators? You can't go wrong with either and I think you have some price "vetting" in that they are close.

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Re: replacement casement window options?

#22 Post by 57ringo »

soft-lite Elite

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Re: replacement casement window options?

#23 Post by TheWindowNerd »

You have two hings you need to nail in this project, alright maybe three.
the product, the installer/install, and the company/contractor. A miss, less than 95%, on any one will end up with a deficient project.

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Re: replacement casement window options?

#24 Post by HomeSealed »

57ringo wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:23 pm I received a bid for Sunrise restoration windows today for $22,721 and a bid from Softlite for $21,340
Two very good window options there and as WoW alluded to, the variety of quotes that you have received would seem to indicate that the price looks about right.

In a "product only vacuum" I might lean slightly toward the Restorations based on the fact that they are casements (I'd lean the other way for DH), but they are certainly close enough that I'd base your decision on which install company that you feel more comfortable with.

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Re: replacement casement window options?

#25 Post by 57ringo »

I haven't received a bid from Okna yet

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Re: replacement casement window options?

#26 Post by HomeSealed »

57ringo wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:53 pm I haven't received a bid from Okna yet
If you have one coming that would complete the trifecta IMO, as those are arguably the three top products on the market -- or at least three of the top tier of products.

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Re: replacement casement window options?

#27 Post by TheWindowNerd »

If any of the casements are large Sunrise seemed to have the most published engineering.
theWindowNerd

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Re: replacement casement window options?

#28 Post by 57ringo »

I don't understand what you mean

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Re: replacement casement window options?

#29 Post by TheWindowNerd »

They will make wider than 36" casements, this is supported by their size chart that also presents different glass options and the limits.

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Re: replacement casement window options?

#30 Post by toddinmn »

Seems it would only make sense that have more published engineering on a size others don’t carry.

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