MN Vinyl (Softlite Elements/Imperial, Sunrise)

Ask replacement window questions & get answers!
Post Reply
Message
Author
bear
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2023 12:34 pm

MN Vinyl (Softlite Elements/Imperial, Sunrise)

#1 Post by bear »

I've finally gathered almost complete data to ask for advice. Here we go.
My family moved into a home in Lakeville, MN, about six months ago. Current windows are Windsor double hung and casement. There are two sets of double casement windows with some wood rot on the bottom that I've sealed with spray foam for the winter, and a third set a double casement windows above the bathtub that is structurally intact, but the wood on the bottom is looking pretty ugly (will need tempered glass on this one). So, we're looking at replacing three double casements and converting to slider windows, white interior and exterior. It seems like a full frame replacement would be the more prudent choice in my case, particularly because there's some wood rot present.

I've gathered from researching all this stuff, insofar as it is possible to do this online, that the higher end Softlite and Sunrise windows are highly recommended. Okna doesn't seem available here. Quotes I've received, from low to high:

Pane in the Glass
Heartland double pane, full frame, U value .27
$5000 (5% additional discount available if I decide "within the next few days")
This seems to be a smaller producer out of Iowa, and the only one that has a noticeable warranty limitation:
The sealed, insulated glass unit is warranted against defects resulting in material obstruction of vision from film formation caused by dust or moisture in the dead air space of the sealed unit, for a period of 30 years from date of installation. Should the glass fail prior to year 10, then we will provide you with a replacement sealed glass unit at no charge. Should the glass fail after year 10, as a result of defects described above, then we will charge you a fixed percentage of the company's selling price for insulated glass at that time, according to the following formula:

Years 10 through 15 60%
Years 15 through 20 70%
Years 20 through 25 80%
Years 25 through 30 90%

Their salesman has really pushed this as the best quality for the price and emphasizes that installation is the most important thing.
They also carry Sunrise windows, which he says would be +$400 each window, so $6200, but is pushing that Heartland is the better choice because it's less expensive and uses the same glass.

Zen Windows
Softlite Pro, full frame, double pane, lifetime warranty, U value .27 0.08 CFM
$6300

MN Exteriors
Provia Endure, full frame, double pane, lifetime warranty, U value .27, 0.07 CFM
$6300

Budget Exteriors
Softlite Imperial, full frame, double pane, lifetime warranty (not including screen damage or labor), U value .27, 0.02 CFM
$7500 (salesman indicated there might be some wiggle room here, so I might be able to negotiate down to 7000)

Builders & Remodelers
Softlite Elements, triple pane, lifetime warranty, U value .19, 0.01 CFM
$6900 insert/$8300 full frame

TBD:
Beissel Windows/Siding
Sunrise--quote should be coming in today or in next few days

All these companies appear to have good reputations according to online reviews, although I know there's some general skepticism about Zen Windows.
There is general agreement that installation is extremely important. It's tough for me to know what to do with this info, since everyone agrees about that in the abstract and the salesmen all say that their guys will obviously do a great job and the other companies may or may not. I figure that the only way to buffer against his unknown is to buy from a well established company that isn't likely to go out of business and offers a good warranty.

Double vs Triple pane in MN--seems like this could go either way...the Elements dealer is the only one that argued that triple is definitely the way to go. Other ranged from meh it's not really worth the additional cost to being neutral about it, like you get some benefits and increased cost, so either way could be fine.

One more final question--does Sunlight offer multiple lines of windows in all markets? I've read about Restorations, Vanguard, etc. being offered online, but the website and brochure I have don't seem to refer to these, which is odd and confusing.

Thanks all for your thoughts!

User avatar
HomeSealed
Posts: 2996
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:46 pm
Location: Milwaukee, Madison, SE Wisconsin

Re: MN Vinyl (Softlite Elements/Imperial, Sunrise)

#2 Post by HomeSealed »

bear wrote: Mon Feb 13, 2023 1:21 pm I figure that the only way to buffer against his unknown is to buy from a well established company that isn't likely to go out of business and offers a good warranty.
This is an extraordinarily wise approach.

bear wrote: Mon Feb 13, 2023 1:21 pm Double vs Triple pane in MN--seems like this could go either way...the Elements dealer is the only one that argued that triple is definitely the way to go. Other ranged from meh it's not really worth the additional cost to being neutral about it, like you get some benefits and increased cost, so either way could be fine.
Judging by his product offering as well as his comments, he(SL guy) sounds like the most informed option here. This should be your leading choice IMO. I'm also surprised that nobody has mentioned the new Energy Star requirement of .22 U value or better for our Northern Zone (essentially necessitating triple pane). It will be accompanied by a tax credit of up to $600 (or $1100 with qualifying door(s))
bear wrote: Mon Feb 13, 2023 1:21 pm One more final question--does Sunlight offer multiple lines of windows in all markets? I've read about Restorations, Vanguard, etc. being offered online, but the website and brochure I have don't seem to refer to these, which is odd and confusing.
That can vary by market. If they have a very large dealer in your area, the other lines may be limited. Best thing would be to contact Sunrise to find out.

User avatar
toddinmn
Posts: 1067
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:02 pm

Re: MN Vinyl (Softlite Elements/Imperial, Sunrise)

#3 Post by toddinmn »

I don’t think they are giving you air infiltration numbers for the sliders, looks more like double hung numbers. Slider will typically be higher.

bear
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2023 12:34 pm

Re: MN Vinyl (Softlite Elements/Imperial, Sunrise)

#4 Post by bear »

Some of those air infiltration numbers are from brochures and aren't specific to sliders. I imagine that they're advertising the lowest possible of any of their models, and assuming (which perhaps I shouldn't) that whichever company is best at air infiltration in one model is likely similarly good at it in all models if they're employing the same technology in everything. So, Softlite Element is the best, followed by Imperial, followed by the others. Although, all the air leakage figures I've found seem pretty low...I'm not sure how significant something like 0.01-2ish compared to something like 0.05-6ish would be? I've had a hard time finding specific CFM numbers. I don't think it's on NFRC?

Regarding the Energy Star requirement changing--I had no idea, and am baffled that no one else has mentioned that to me. It seems like a really compelling argument to sell me a more expensive window. It looks like that's going into effective 10/23/23, so maybe they were thinking they'd install prior to that and it wouldn't be relevant?

User avatar
toddinmn
Posts: 1067
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:02 pm

Re: MN Vinyl (Softlite Elements/Imperial, Sunrise)

#5 Post by toddinmn »

My guess is they show the double hung air numbers because it Will show the largest difference. Typically casements have a lower air number and a smaller difference while sliders will have a much larger number. I would compare slider to slider air numbers if you are concerned about air infiltration.

sdelphy01
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2023 9:14 pm

Re: MN Vinyl (Softlite Elements/Imperial, Sunrise)

#6 Post by sdelphy01 »

I just got a quote for Sunrise vinyl sliders in northern Colorado with full frame install. They are triple pane, "S3312X" LowE3 coating, non-standard color.

Typical all-in per window price with tax/install/etc is $1,500 for up to about a 54"x58" opening.

And also a double-end slider (has slider on each end at about 54t"x24w" with picture window in middle at 54"tx48"w) @ $2,055. Does this sort of match-up to your windows?

They are listed as Energy Star certified in all 50 states with 0.23 U-factor, 0.19 SHGC, 0.43 VT, and <0.3 air leakage.

bear
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2023 12:34 pm

Re: MN Vinyl (Softlite Elements/Imperial, Sunrise)

#7 Post by bear »

I'm trying to add a picture.

The sizes are approximately 60x48, 60x54, 60x65.
Attachments
2.jpg

User avatar
TheWindowNerd
Posts: 2216
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:05 pm
Location: SE PA & NJ; DFW/Metroplex

Re: MN Vinyl (Softlite Elements/Imperial, Sunrise)

#8 Post by TheWindowNerd »

Fairly standard looking twin casement.
Remove the sash, remove the stops, cut out the mullion, install the new 2 section slider, foam, add shoe, cap and seal exterior.

Post Reply