Is this installation information correct?

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SupaGremlin79
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Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2023 6:46 pm

Is this installation information correct?

#1 Post by SupaGremlin79 »

I'm replacing my home's original windows with vinyl. The originals are wood interior and aluminum clad exterior. Some installers have called them Andersen, others Weather Shield. I am concerned about what the installation will end up looking like, considering how ugly the exterior aluminum is.
We are getting ProVia, currently trying to decide between the Aspect and Endure. Probably going with Aspect simply because we have few, and small, windows, so glass area is a big concern. All quotes on the higher quality windows like Okna and Sunrise are just too much $$$ for us.
The installer we are leaning toward has said this about the installation, and I am wondering if this is correct information and proper installation technique:
"Your house has some unique difficulties associated with the installation. The existing Weather Shield windows have an aluminum jamb and exterior frame. This makes it impossible to insulate the frame once the window is set. In our pricing I have added polyfoam insulation wrap on the sides and top of the window and we apply spray foam on the bottom of the window. This seals the window to the frame for a tight seal, non insulated windows will promote extra condensation and mold due to the existing aluminum frame. Most sub-contractors won't wrap your exterior frames because it is not wood and just caulk the new window to the old aluminum frame. We wrap all of the existing frame with PVC coated metal work."

Does this sound like the right way to do it?
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uncle eddie
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Re: Is this installation information correct?

#2 Post by uncle eddie »

No, but you are choosing low price over quality on the window, so may as well do the same on the install, right?

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Is this installation information correct?

#3 Post by Windows on Washington »

Unless the gap is super small, you can usually get some foam in there.

SupaGremlin79
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Re: Is this installation information correct?

#4 Post by SupaGremlin79 »

Thanks for the snarky reply, Uncle Eddie. I put Okna windows in my previous home, and you know what? None of the buyers gave a damn. I found out that as long as the windows look nice and open and close properly without any noticeable drafts, buyers don't care at all about which brand or quality of window your house has. So why pay $2000 more for Oknas when I'm never going to make that money back in house sale price or energy savings?

There are plenty of us out there who can only afford $700 a window. You don't have to shame us for not being able to afford more. I'm trying to educate myself the best I can and get a good window for what I can afford. I know the Okna and Sunrise are better windows but I can't afford them and they aren't a good value when you consider how much more they cost and that the cost will never be returned when selling the house.

WindowsDirectCinci
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Re: Is this installation information correct?

#5 Post by WindowsDirectCinci »

The way that installer described it is one way to do it (although not a good one in my opinion. What we usually do on this style is cut through the exterior aluminum stop (it's a PITA) but allows us enough room to insulate the new window. We also always wrap the exterior with new aluminum. At least the installer was upfront with you about his method but I would pass if that's the way they are going to do it.Its just the easiest route for the installer but not the best or even acceptable way in my opinion. Another option would be to downsize the window enough to where you can get insulation in there and install new stops or trim on the inside to finish it off. These are the only options I would consider with option 1 significantly ahead of option 2. His preferred method isn't recommended by me and most anyone else who knows or cares what they are doing. In nicer words than uncle you get what you pay for and that installation is a huge red flag, window aside

Delaware Mike
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Re: Is this installation information correct?

#6 Post by Delaware Mike »

Personally, I prefer to cut off the exterior aluminum stop with fine tooth metal blade in the SawZal. It's not hard if you have correctly honed skills of working with trade power tools. If measured correctly with squaring room in the wood (sashes are gutted), one can get plenty of foam around the windows. I run a Hilti pro gun with very small slip on plastic reducer tips. The mechanical seal of the capping terminated into the face of the new window's accessory groove with just the ether foam wrapping would be okay, but most of the pros here like to take multiple insulation and sealing measures. I like to utilize all modern building science, tools, and techniques to ensure that I give the best install possible.

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Is this installation information correct?

#7 Post by Windows on Washington »

Yep. What Mike said. That is how we yank them out.

uncle eddie
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Re: Is this installation information correct?

#8 Post by uncle eddie »

SupaGremlin79 wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 4:50 pm Thanks for the snarky reply, Uncle Eddie. I put Okna windows in my previous home, and you know what? None of the buyers gave a damn. I found out that as long as the windows look nice and open and close properly without any noticeable drafts, buyers don't care at all about which brand or quality of window your house has. So why pay $2000 more for Oknas when I'm never going to make that money back in house sale price or energy savings?

There are plenty of us out there who can only afford $700 a window. You don't have to shame us for not being able to afford more. I'm trying to educate myself the best I can and get a good window for what I can afford. I know the Okna and Sunrise are better windows but I can't afford them and they aren't a good value when you consider how much more they cost and that the cost will never be returned when selling the house.
Sorry if I offended you gremlin. I'm not quite as diplomatic as the other guys, no need for me to add sprinkles on telling you thats a crappy install and par for the course with that window.

A. If you're fliiping the place then sure, get the cheap stuff. If you plan on selling it some years down the road though, while buyers may not give a rip about you saying "okan windows", they'll definitely notice if the windows still look new, or if they look like throwaway windows that were designed to last 10 years and are already showing it.

B. Why pay more? So you don't become a statistic. 9 of 10 people that have bad experience in this business went with a cheap option. Sorry if that doesn't fit fit your budget or the fact that you are trying to feel good about being cheap (and yes, $700 per window is a huge red flag).

Not trying to shame you, just trying to help save you from a potential horror story of a project where you will wish that you had paid another $2k and lived happily ever after. Been around this business a long, long time and i see it every day. Take it for what its worth to you though.

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Is this installation information correct?

#9 Post by Windows on Washington »

He's not a "sugar coat" type of guy...but he's also not wrong.

The cheaper part isn't the issue as much as the installers that defer to that. We see good products, installed poorly that are just done by "sell cheap" companies. That is my bigger concern as well.

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