purchased new windows with Sears/(Transform SR Home Improvement Products LLC this is the 2nd batch of sashes that they sent me because the first batch had marks that looked like rock chip, deep scratches and scrapes. some deep scratches were also found on the edge of vinyl trim. i reported this i sent them pictures the installer came back he took pictures, someone from sears contacted me said that Wincore, the manufacture of the windows will send a inspector however, something happened and the inspector could not make it about 2 months later i get an email from sears to basically pay up and the wincore denied the claim saying that it meets industry standards however sears claims that it meets acceptable expectations for an install.
Is this acceptable or am i being picky? i am paying 14k for this plus the installer didnt do a good job when it came to finishing... i have caulk all over the wood trim, nail holes that didn't get filled and the caulk is coming undone from around the window.
i did not include all pictures but basically sears is acting stupid with this whole thing i have gone through 5 different people. Also never signed the certificate of completion so they can't collect final payment until I'm 100% satisfied.
Scuffed and scratched New vinyl windows
Scuffed and scratched New vinyl windows
- Attachments
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Windows on Washington
- Posts: 5430
- Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:23 am
- Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
Re: Scuffed and scratched New vinyl windows
There are rules for interpretation on glass defects, but I can see those pretty clearly.
Re: Scuffed and scratched New vinyl windows
Yep and when I asked them for documentation on allowable damage and imperfections they basically told me they don't have any it's just their opinion...
They told me that the damage is allowed because of how many people touch them from start to finish and they cannot prevent damages from happening.
What is your take on the vinyl... yes the vinyl could be repaired if done by a professional however I feel like if they do that, I shouldn't be paying full price.
They told me that the damage is allowed because of how many people touch them from start to finish and they cannot prevent damages from happening.
What is your take on the vinyl... yes the vinyl could be repaired if done by a professional however I feel like if they do that, I shouldn't be paying full price.
Re: Scuffed and scratched New vinyl windows
Yep and when I asked them for documentation on allowable damage and imperfections they basically told me they don't have any it's just their opinion...
They told me that the damage is allowed because of how many people touch them from start to finish and they cannot prevent damages from happening.
What is your take on the vinyl... yes the vinyl could be repaired if done by a professional however I feel like if they do that, I shouldn't be paying full price.
They told me that the damage is allowed because of how many people touch them from start to finish and they cannot prevent damages from happening.
What is your take on the vinyl... yes the vinyl could be repaired if done by a professional however I feel like if they do that, I shouldn't be paying full price.
Re: Scuffed and scratched New vinyl windows
Ryandw91
Do you know what brand and what series window they used?
Do you know what brand and what series window they used?
Re: Scuffed and scratched New vinyl windows
Wincore 7700 series I believe
-
HomeSealed
- Posts: 3062
- Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:46 pm
- Location: Milwaukee, Madison, SE Wisconsin
Re: Scuffed and scratched New vinyl windows
There is a standard on this and it's not based on opinion. Search ASTM C1036-16, ASTM C1376-15, ASTM C1172-14, ASTM C1048-12 and ASTM E2190.
Its hard to tell whether or not your meet that standard or not as they are zoomed in pretty tight. I can say that many scratches and scuffs on both glass and vinyl can be buffed out, as long as they are on a surface that is accessible (ie: not inside the igu).
Beyond that, be careful about your understanding of the payment timing. Those completion certificates are generally more for psychological purposes than anything. Industry standard would dictate that payment is due at substantial completion, (precluding warranty and punchlist items). Most good companies prefer to work with you on that until you are satisfied, however it's generally not because they are obligated -- that is unless it is sated in the contract.
I don't think it's out of line for you to demand a factory rep out to inspect this if they are denying it. They can't make a determination from behind a computer screen, especially since the standards are based on distance from the unit, etc.
Its hard to tell whether or not your meet that standard or not as they are zoomed in pretty tight. I can say that many scratches and scuffs on both glass and vinyl can be buffed out, as long as they are on a surface that is accessible (ie: not inside the igu).
Beyond that, be careful about your understanding of the payment timing. Those completion certificates are generally more for psychological purposes than anything. Industry standard would dictate that payment is due at substantial completion, (precluding warranty and punchlist items). Most good companies prefer to work with you on that until you are satisfied, however it's generally not because they are obligated -- that is unless it is sated in the contract.
I don't think it's out of line for you to demand a factory rep out to inspect this if they are denying it. They can't make a determination from behind a computer screen, especially since the standards are based on distance from the unit, etc.
Re: Scuffed and scratched New vinyl windows
Contract says that they can't collect final payments until I sign the completion form.. because I'm paying cash the installer was supposed to collect it but never did... but when I asked wincore what organization do they use for industry standards they pointed to AAMA.. when I contacted them they told me basically it's up to the manufacturer to set these rules for packaging and allowable damage. But I'll look into ASTM however wincore can choose not to follow ASTM stanards.
I think what is really going on is that sears messed up these windows during transit and wincore is not accepting their claim..it doesn't help that the installer drives 2.5 hours on the interstate with an open trailer.
My biggest thing is that this can all be prevented and if my windows come in the way that they did because of negligence then why should I have to pay for that.
I think what is really going on is that sears messed up these windows during transit and wincore is not accepting their claim..it doesn't help that the installer drives 2.5 hours on the interstate with an open trailer.
My biggest thing is that this can all be prevented and if my windows come in the way that they did because of negligence then why should I have to pay for that.
-
HomeSealed
- Posts: 3062
- Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:46 pm
- Location: Milwaukee, Madison, SE Wisconsin
Re: Scuffed and scratched New vinyl windows
You are getting the runaround here, and none of that really matters. There is no real discretion here unless it is being exercised to go above and beyond standards. If this was to rise to the level of legal action, the ASTM standards would be referenced unless the manufacturer states something else in their WRITTEN warranty. They are either above or below that line. How it happened doesn't matter, nor does how they fix it if they can.
Bottom line is that the things being stated may not be relevant or true, what is written both in your contract as well as the manufacturer warranty is, as well as the industry standard.
As far as the payment, that would be some unconventional language and I suspect that they would have a way to compel customers to pay for completed jobs in there as well.
Bottom line is that the things being stated may not be relevant or true, what is written both in your contract as well as the manufacturer warranty is, as well as the industry standard.
As far as the payment, that would be some unconventional language and I suspect that they would have a way to compel customers to pay for completed jobs in there as well.