Pocket v Full Viewable Glass Size

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Windowsagogo
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Pocket v Full Viewable Glass Size

#1 Post by Windowsagogo »

I am looking for replacement windows for 40 year old windows that are under a porch so they've been protected and all wood. I can't seem to get a clear answer. I want as much viewing room as possible. Is the viewable glass area in a pocket install replacement windows a different size WxH then a Full install? if so how significant. I am trying to maintain as much glass as possible now that i have to replace and trying to maintain the beauty of the wood windows using the vinyl replacement.
Thank you

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Pocket v Full Viewable Glass Size

#2 Post by Windows on Washington »

The answer, assuming you are using the same product for an insert window vs. full tear out, is pretty simple. It's basically 1.5" in total width and about the same in height (depending if you have interior stools or not). You are only removing the frame of the old wood window at that point (3/4" wood bucks) and installing stud to stud.

Keep in mind, you will need to re-trim the existing window interiors as a part of this process so figure on that additional expense and carpentry work as well.

Windowsagogo
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Re: Pocket v Full Viewable Glass Size

#3 Post by Windowsagogo »

Thank you. Not sure what you mean about stools

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toddinmn
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Re: Pocket v Full Viewable Glass Size

#4 Post by toddinmn »

There are things to consider when only doing a partial replacement when choosing between inserts , “full frame” and finned new construction windows. The latter 2 Are gonna give more viewable glass but they can change inward and outward appearances. Ideally you choose something that meshes with your other windows A good sales person could walk you through this , explain the pro’s and con’s of each and make a recommendation that fits your overall goals. I like continuity overall before glass space and this is something to consider when doing a partial replacement.

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Pocket v Full Viewable Glass Size

#5 Post by Windows on Washington »

Windowsagogo wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2023 8:20 am Thank you. Not sure what you mean about stools
Image

Madovicar
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Re: Pocket v Full Viewable Glass Size

#6 Post by Madovicar »

Researching this a bit, I remain confused.

I am considering replacing windows, pocket vs. full install. The house was built in 2003, well-known tract builder = windows with poor insulation around the window frame, based on the air leakage I can feel. Questions:

• I have gotten quotes from 3 companies. Not one of the three companies took a simple IR reading of window to see amount of leakage around the window. I am not a window professional, but found this very odd. What am I missing?

They all told us about insulation properties of windows, but none addressed the insulation issues around the window. They all say go pocket install. They give the option of full replacement, but do not recommend it.

Is this because any individual salesperson is potentially losing out on a sale bycoming in with a higher quote by recommending full install over pocket?

• The extra cost of a full replacement is around 22% more than pocket install. Does an installer actually make less money with a full replacement?

I am genuinely puzzled by this. If I want better insulation as part of reason to do window replacement, it seems I should really be considering full replacement....but that depends on insulation/leakage issues that should be measurable during the sales assessment?

Some experts here, for sure, I am very interested in your thoughts! Thank you :)

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Pocket v Full Viewable Glass Size

#7 Post by Windows on Washington »

What kind of windows do you have currently? Wood, Vinyl, ?

uncle eddie
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Re: Pocket v Full Viewable Glass Size

#8 Post by uncle eddie »

Madovicar wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 6:09 am Researching this a bit, I remain confused.

I am considering replacing windows, pocket vs. full install. The house was built in 2003, well-known tract builder = windows with poor insulation around the window frame, based on the air leakage I can feel. Questions:

• I have gotten quotes from 3 companies. Not one of the three companies took a simple IR reading of window to see amount of leakage around the window. I am not a window professional, but found this very odd. What am I missing?

They all told us about insulation properties of windows, but none addressed the insulation issues around the window. They all say go pocket install. They give the option of full replacement, but do not recommend it.

Is this because any individual salesperson is potentially losing out on a sale bycoming in with a higher quote by recommending full install over pocket?

• The extra cost of a full replacement is around 22% more than pocket install. Does an installer actually make less money with a full replacement?

I am genuinely puzzled by this. If I want better insulation as part of reason to do window replacement, it seems I should really be considering full replacement....but that depends on insulation/leakage issues that should be measurable during the sales assessment?

Some experts here, for sure, I am very interested in your thoughts! Thank you :)
Sounds like you are looking for a paid inspection as opposed to a free estimate. I've heard of window guys using IR cameras and other tools here and there, but it really doesn't amount to much more than a dog and pony show like the heat lamp on glass demo.

Do installers make less for doing full replacements? It depends. The pay is higher whether its hourly or pay per job, however they may very well make less proportionally doing full replacements when all of the extra time is considered.

Most guys recommend pockets simply because they are a win for all parties in most cases. As a homeowner you get the full benefit of new windows (in most cases), the install is simpler and quicker, the sale is easier, etc etc.

Do you have windows set with sheetrock returns, or are they cased with jamb extensions? Vinyl or wood? If the latter on both, you can just pop the casing off to insulate and still do pockets to save the extra $$$.

Madovicar
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Re: Pocket v Full Viewable Glass Size

#9 Post by Madovicar »

Thank you both for taking the time to reply :)

The current windows are wood, double pane.

Do you have windows set with sheetrock returns, or are they cased with jamb extensions?


I am not sure, and googling how to tell them apart is not that helpful to a novice like me. There is wooden trim around the edges of the window, but that does not help me if they were installed with jamb extensions, at least with my (meager) knowledge about home building!

Sounds like you are looking for a paid inspection as opposed to a free estimate. I've heard of window guys using IR cameras and other tools here and there, but it really doesn't amount to much more than a dog and pony show like the heat lamp on glass demo.

Hmm, I'm just trying to make the right decision. You are correct about dangers of sales pitches and techniques, in all businesses. I am in business as well, and know that customers often what is shiny, cheap, and easy, rather than what is durable, expensive and hard....so I can sympathize with your observation :-)

From what I have read, perhaps it is impossible to know how well the windows were installed without actually exposing them during the re-install? I was hoping that IR data would help with that information gathering...but perhaps not, or that would be part of the evaluation process?

This is an expensive decision to make and to me, more information is better than less information.

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Pocket v Full Viewable Glass Size

#10 Post by Windows on Washington »

If you go with a window that runs on the narrow side of the product offering lines, the differential in what is left intact is the window frames on the wood windows which = 1.5" (3/4" per side).

Question is...is that extra 1.5" worth the extra cost in trim and labor. When you go full tear out in a wood window, you also need to tell me how you are re-sealing that new frame to the structure.

Madovicar
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Re: Pocket v Full Viewable Glass Size

#11 Post by Madovicar »

Thank you VERY MUCH for your replies.

Your expertise and sharing of knowledge is very helpful!

:)

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