Over- and Under-whelmed!

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ljonan
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Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2023 10:19 am

Over- and Under-whelmed!

#1 Post by ljonan »

Hi folks,

I just purchased a 1944 bungalow in Minneapolis a month ago, and it is in bad need of new windows. The current vinyl, double pane windows are literally falling apart, so anything would be an upgrade, but I obviously want a good product at a reasonable price. I have gotten several quotes, but I am having a hard time comparing them, as the sales people have really provided a dearth of information. I was dreading the sales pitches, but have honestly been disappointed by how little anyone has tried to sell me their products!

So here are the quotes I have gotten for 13 double hung replacement windows:

Marvin Essentials - $21,419
Sunrise/MI V4000 - $17,592
KHPP Ascent - $21,797
KHPP Genesis - $19,703
Renewal by Anderson - $22,446
ProVia Endure (Zen Windows, which makes me nervous) - $12,530
Softlite Imperial Elite - ~$22,000
Softlite Barrington - ~$18,000
Hayfield ? - TBD

I am likely going to get vinyl, but the person who gave me the Sunrise quote threw in the Marvin quote, as fiberglass does intrigue me. And I started with RBA, because, advertising. I am still waiting on the Hayfield quote, but figured I'd throw it in there to see if anyone has opinions on the brand in general. I have very little information about the technical ratings for these windows and am a bit overwhelmed trying to find more information from their brochures/websites or from the Energy Star and NFRC websites. I can ask the sales people for more specifics, and likely will, but first I wanted to see if you all had any advice to what to ask for. None of the sales people really impressed me with their knowledge of the products, so I want to make sure I ask clear questions (asking general questions about the products when the sales people came to my house yielded very little info. Is it because I am a woman?!). I would need to know the exact glass package to get accurate U-factors and SHGC, correct? Nobody discussed different options for glass packages with me. And are air infiltration ratings generally available? I noticed that the NFRC website doesn't have them for many products.

Also, I had hoped to keep the total around $15,000, which doesn't seem likely, given that only one quote so far is below that. I can go higher, but my goal isn't necessarily to get the absolute best product - I want a solid product that will be in good shape and still perform just as well in ten years, and won't have gaps big enough to fit my little finger in between the sash and the frame! (the current situation on one of my windows). All the sales people ask how long I plan to stay in the house, which kind of makes me laugh, because I have no clue! My ex and I put a metal roof on our old house because we thought we'd be there forever, but now he's my ex (and he still lives in that house, but can barely afford it), and I am on a completely new path in life that doesn't have a goal destination. I'd say there is a 50/50 chance I'll be in my current house when my kids are done with high school, in 12 years. I also am not keen on putting in a crappy product for someone else to have to replace in ten years if I am not here - such a waste!

Please help this overthinker!

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HomeSealed
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Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:46 pm
Location: Milwaukee, Madison, SE Wisconsin

Re: Over- and Under-whelmed!

#2 Post by HomeSealed »

Having 8-9 products quoted, that would seem to lay out your the price range for your scope of work in your area pretty clearly.

You have at least a couple of nice options there in the Sl Elite and the Sunrise. You wouldn't go wrong with either.

There are some reasons to be intrigued buy fiberglass in the right circumstances, but you haven't listed any. You are in a cold climate, appear to be okay with the aesthetics of vinyl, and don't need a custom color painted on the interior of your windows. Toss the Marvin with its high rate of air leakage and overall reduced performance. Ironically, while the propaganda machine behind that product touts the strength of fiberglass, this doesn't translate to a stronger window as evidenced by the DP ratings. Most of your vinyl window options offer a structurally stronger window assembly.

RBA isn't the worst window, but its always at the top of the price range while middle of the range at best in terms of performance.

KHPP has some great performance. That said, around that same price I'd prefer the SL or Sunrise based both on the product itself and the reliability of the manufacturer.

You are right to have reservations about that provia option based on the product, dealer, and outlier pricing.

You are on the right track when it comes to your desire to compare ratings. U value, shgc, condensation resistance, air leakage, and design pressure will all be relevant for you, it would be best to get these in writing from any company that you are considering.

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toddinmn
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Re: Over- and Under-whelmed!

#3 Post by toddinmn »

Since you are in my hood I’d be happy to help. PM me directly Or call.

ljonan
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2023 10:19 am

Re: Over- and Under-whelmed!

#4 Post by ljonan »

toddinmn wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2023 10:44 pm Since you are in my hood I’d be happy to help. PM me directly Or call.
Thanks Todd. Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see any way to contact you under your profile

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toddinmn
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Re: Over- and Under-whelmed!

#5 Post by toddinmn »

612-749-4103

ljonan
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Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2023 10:19 am

Re: Over- and Under-whelmed!

#6 Post by ljonan »

Okay, I just got a quote for Polaris UltraWelds for $19,986. I am deciding between that and the Sunrise at $16,700 (got them to give me a "coupon"). The obvious difference between the two is that the Polaris are triple pane and the Sunrise are double pane. I do think the Sunrise are better looking than the UltraWeld. Would I be crazy not to go with the UltraWeld at this price? I would probably only do 9 or 10 of my 13 windows if I went with the UltraWeld, because it's just a bit out of my budget. Hopefully I would be able to finish the project in a year or two, but that's definitely not guaranteed.

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toddinmn
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Re: Over- and Under-whelmed!

#7 Post by toddinmn »

The UltraWelds have a thicker frames , sashes. But is a stout unit.
The Sunrise has slimmer lines . In double hungs I’d take the Ultra weld for its stronger frame and sash. If casements I’d go with the Sunrise. Both can be had in double or triple pane if you want to put the pricing on more equal grounds. Either way I’d bite the bullet and get them all done at once. The pricing seems to be the going rate so I’ll leave that alone as you many bids already. I’d also focus on the installation details and make sure you comparing the same there. As a disclaimer I am a Polaris dealer .

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Over- and Under-whelmed!

#8 Post by Windows on Washington »

The UltraWeld is clearly the tank in that comparison between it in the Sunrise, but with the triple pane and better performance numbers, not so sure that isn't the better option. Sunrise still makes a great product, but even some of our long time Sunrise dealers on here are posting about some concerns with the MI transition. If you do get the Sunrise window, make sure they specify it with reinforcement.

ljonan
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Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2023 10:19 am

Re: Over- and Under-whelmed!

#9 Post by ljonan »

Windows on Washington wrote: Tue Aug 29, 2023 10:18 am The UltraWeld is clearly the tank in that comparison between it in the Sunrise, but with the triple pane and better performance numbers, not so sure that isn't the better option. Sunrise still makes a great product, but even some of our long time Sunrise dealers on here are posting about some concerns with the MI transition. If you do get the Sunrise window, make sure they specify it with reinforcement.
Could you tell me more about what you mean by "reinforcement?" What would be reinforced? Thanks!

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Over- and Under-whelmed!

#10 Post by Windows on Washington »

There is an option for a sash reinforcement on the Sunrise that really should be their standard.

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Over- and Under-whelmed!

#11 Post by Windows on Washington »

Optional sash reinforcement.

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