Seeking guidance on mixed replacement

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HowardSt83
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Seeking guidance on mixed replacement

#1 Post by HowardSt83 »

Hi, all:

First off, this board seems like a national treasure to me. Thanks for running it and replying!

Quick details:
Located in Chicago, IL
House built in 1942, addition in early 90s.

Some of the original wooden grid DH windows remain, thanks to hearty (and ugly) triple rail aluminum storms

All windows in question have brick exterior and original dark wood interior trim.

We're looking to do a replacement due to 3 issues:

1) 3 front DHs are older (maybe done during addition?) replacement wood interior double panes, no grid, no storms, and have been a huge winter draft/airleak issue. Like feel a constant cold breeze on your neck bad.

2) one of the original DHs in 2nd bedroom has issues, frame seems to have gone out of square so the storm won't align and there is always a decent gap in one of the upper corners. This has caused some water/ice damage.

3) Though the other original DHs are hanging on, one needs a screen for the triple rail storm and a rope replacement.

Okay, preamble done, my main question is guidance on what path to take for upgrades. If I wanted to replace all originals plus the 3 leaky ones, looking at 10 windows. If just the problem items above, 5 windows.

Quotes for 10 windows:
Feldco vinyl $11K if I had bought it on the spot. Was fine saying no, off-putting sales guy
RBA 21K
Alside Mezzos 9.5K (we would like to pay for dark fake wood interior of vinyl to match)
Climate Solutions 8100 series vinyl $10400 (fake wood again)
Marvin Elevates 14K (we would need to stain)

I'm trying to keep some of the character of the house so the wood interior appeals. But since our main impetus has been to fix the drafty windows, I sure would like good thermal / airflow performance. Welcome thoughts on the above and recs. Likely we might just do the 5 needed replacements and enjoy having the originals. The owner who removed the other originals back on the 90s already made the house a mishmash!

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Seeking guidance on mixed replacement

#2 Post by Windows on Washington »

If air tightness is your goal, most of the top performers in both the thermal and air tightness will be in vinyl.

They do make some with the common Midwest interior colors (i.e. foil laminate interiors).

HowardSt83
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Re: Seeking guidance on mixed replacement

#3 Post by HowardSt83 »

Thanks, WoW. So your read is that the Elevates won't keep up with most vinyl? That's helpful context to have.

Elevate's numbers (uF .27, SHGC .21, CR 57) come in pretty close to the info I have on the Climate Solutions 8100 (uF .26, SHGC .21, CR 60) but Marvin doesn't seem to list Air Infiltration - the 8100s say theirs has .05 CFM leakage.

Honestly, I think we would have gone vinyl right away if we were okay with white, but once you add the ~$2K in additional cost to have 10 windows get faux wood grain interiors, the price delta to go up to Elevate or similar tier and have actual wood gets tempting.

Elevate #s source: https://www.marvin.com/-/media/project/ ... 427c180396

8100s #s are from brochure installer provided.

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Seeking guidance on mixed replacement

#4 Post by Windows on Washington »

Will Marvin actually give you the data or the test report and not just the "under 0.30 cfm" pass or fail number?

HowardSt83
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Re: Seeking guidance on mixed replacement

#5 Post by HowardSt83 »

We can't get a specific CFM number from Marvin, but my dealer says it won't be comparable to their vinyl. Any recommendations on what vinyl brand to go with, especially if we're going with a fake wood laminate interior? A couple past posts on this site seem lukewarm about the Climate Solutions.

HowardSt83
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Re: Seeking guidance on mixed replacement

#6 Post by HowardSt83 »

I'll add that I should be getting a Okna quote today.

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Seeking guidance on mixed replacement

#7 Post by Windows on Washington »

Well...that would be one of my top 3 recommendations in vinyl.

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HomeSealed
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Re: Seeking guidance on mixed replacement

#8 Post by HomeSealed »

HowardSt83 wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 9:56 am I'll add that I should be getting a Okna quote today.
Now you are on the right track... Also consider Softlite (Elements, Elite), Sunrise (whatever their top lines are called these days), and a couple others.
You probably have access to the Starmark composite as well which is a phenomenal window.

The Marvin Elevate is a nice window, but as alluded to above, performance is not its fortè, particularly air leakage. I go to great lengths to educate folks on that fact when we sell them, as they will invariably come back with "draft" complaints... The pricing also seems rather low for that product.

CS is a pretty new manufacturer and not all that highly regard in most circles.

HowardSt83
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Re: Seeking guidance on mixed replacement

#9 Post by HowardSt83 »

Okna 800 quote came in only a grand and change higher than climate solutions for the 10 windows, seems like a no-brainer. I do wish I could go with the other installer, much closer and recommended by others, but they don't carry any of those top vinyl brands. Between Okna 800 and comparable Sunrise and Softline lines, any strong differences?

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HomeSealed
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Re: Seeking guidance on mixed replacement

#10 Post by HomeSealed »

HowardSt83 wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2023 10:33 pm Okna 800 quote came in only a grand and change higher than climate solutions for the 10 windows, seems like a no-brainer. I do wish I could go with the other installer, much closer and recommended by others, but they don't carry any of those top vinyl brands. Between Okna 800 and comparable Sunrise and Softline lines, any strong differences?
There are some differences, but you won't go wrong with any of the three provided that all else is equal.

Regarding the other installer, it's extraordinarily rare for someone that is a master of their craft to want to use subpar products. Likewise, guys that don't care about quality rarely pay up for "the good stuff". A company that carries a great product will be your best bet for a great install and customer service as well.

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Seeking guidance on mixed replacement

#11 Post by Windows on Washington »

No brainer here. The Okna 800 is one of the top 3-5 products in vinyl. You found your winner.

misterawesome
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Re: Seeking guidance on mixed replacement

#12 Post by misterawesome »

HowardSt83 wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2023 10:33 pm Okna 800 quote came in only a grand and change higher than climate solutions for the 10 windows, seems like a no-brainer. I do wish I could go with the other installer, much closer and recommended by others, but they don't carry any of those top vinyl brands. Between Okna 800 and comparable Sunrise and Softline lines, any strong differences?
Hi @HowardSt83 I'm in Chicago, and in a similar boat to you. I'm interested who you got your Okna quote from, and if you liked their work. I've been quoted on Climate Solutions 8100 Series, but am having some second thoughts based on some bad reviews I've seen. Not sure if you're able to PM me, or if you can post any info here. But I'd love to find a reputable Okna dealer to bid on my project. Thanks!

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