Very large replacement project

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WindowsDirectCinci
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Re: Very large replacement project

#16 Post by WindowsDirectCinci »

I would make sure you verify the air leakage rate on the Lindsay windows. The window has some nice features but Last time I checked the air infiltration rate was pretty bad

whitesox05
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Re: Very large replacement project

#17 Post by whitesox05 »

Appreciate that, Cinci. Tough to beat the AFR on the Oknas - I see why people go that direction. Have never seen them in person but have also read they don't have that plastic-y vinyl aesthetic to them, which is particularly appealing when I'm trying to save on costs given the size of the project, but also not have an eyesore that doesn't look right considering the finishes on the rest of the home.

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Very large replacement project

#18 Post by Windows on Washington »

WindowsDirectCinci wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2024 6:58 amI would make sure you verify the air leakage rate on the Lindsay windows. The window has some nice features but Last time I checked the air infiltration rate was pretty bad
Don't see it listed on the site which is usually and indication of performance.

WindowsDirectCinci
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Re: Very large replacement project

#19 Post by WindowsDirectCinci »

They tried to sell me before so I have the structural data .11

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toddinmn
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Re: Very large replacement project

#20 Post by toddinmn »

What was the test size of that window?

whitesox05
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Re: Very large replacement project

#21 Post by whitesox05 »

WoW - Safe to say FG is off the table, just came back from the best rated Marvin installer in the area.

190K🤮

I’ve had some of the vinyl believers tell me the technology has improved to the point where 25 years for a high end vinyl window is very much in the realm of realistic. Fair to say Okna longevity (all else equal) is in that range? Marvin dealer is touting 40 years but warranty sure doesn’t reflect that…

WindowsDirectCinci
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Re: Very large replacement project

#22 Post by WindowsDirectCinci »

I’m not sure Todd. I’d have to do some major digging to find it. We’re talking 2016 or 17.

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Very large replacement project

#23 Post by Windows on Washington »

whitesox05 wrote: Sat Mar 09, 2024 4:36 pm WoW - Safe to say FG is off the table, just came back from the best rated Marvin installer in the area.

190K🤮

I’ve had some of the vinyl believers tell me the technology has improved to the point where 25 years for a high end vinyl window is very much in the realm of realistic. Fair to say Okna longevity (all else equal) is in that range? Marvin dealer is touting 40 years but warranty sure doesn’t reflect that…
We go back and do other projects for folks that have nearly 20 year old Oknas in them...Zero indication that they are even wearing out on a trajectory that would put them at 40+ years lifecycle.

Warranty on all the fiberglass products from folks that make wood windows is crap.

TSquared
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Re: Very large replacement project

#24 Post by TSquared »

OP, one nice thing about fiberglass windows like Marvins Elevate, Essential or the Infinity series is that Fiberglass has a same basic expansion and contraction rate as glass. Thus, you get significantly less seal failures and frame failures. Fiberglass has strength and because of that you generally get more glass and less frame thickness.
As far as warranties go, The Infinity series has a lifetime warranty.
Budgets are what they are, and we all have to take that into consideration, no matter what we are purchasing.

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Very large replacement project

#25 Post by Windows on Washington »

TSquared wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 7:33 pm OP, one nice thing about fiberglass windows like Marvins Elevate, Essential or the Infinity series is that Fiberglass has a same basic expansion and contraction rate as glass. Thus, you get significantly less seal failures and frame failures. Fiberglass has strength and because of that you generally get more glass and less frame thickness.
As far as warranties go, The Infinity series has a lifetime warranty.
Budgets are what they are, and we all have to take that into consideration, no matter what we are purchasing.
Don't want to be a contrarian here TSquared, but this is absolutely marketing BS selling spin that was generated by the fiberglass manufacturers.

Not only is the claim of a mechanism and reduction in seal failures provably false, the claimed similar coefficient of expansion is also 100% untrue.

If fiberglass is so much stronger, why a rating of PG-30 out of the Infinity?
Marvin Infinity PG ratings.jpg

TSquared
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Re: Very large replacement project

#26 Post by TSquared »

Windows on Washington wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 7:37 pm
TSquared wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 7:33 pm OP, one nice thing about fiberglass windows like Marvins Elevate, Essential or the Infinity series is that Fiberglass has a same basic expansion and contraction rate as glass. Thus, you get significantly less seal failures and frame failures. Fiberglass has strength and because of that you generally get more glass and less frame thickness.
As far as warranties go, The Infinity series has a lifetime warranty.
Budgets are what they are, and we all have to take that into consideration, no matter what we are purchasing.
Don't want to be a contrarian here TSquared, but this is absolutely marketing BS selling spin that was generated by the fiberglass manufacturers.

Not only is the claim of a mechanism and reduction in seal failures provably false, the claimed similar coefficient of expansion is also 100% untrue.
Then we will have to just disagree on this, and the OP can do his research about the expansion and contraction rate of fiberglass compared to vinyl. I have no interest in getting into an argument with anyone here and am just looking to help the public by providing window information coming from my experience and training. I don't charge anything for it and the public can take my information for just a post on an internet forum. Makes no difference to me.
In regard to Performance grade ratings (PG ratings) It's takes into consideration the entire window which includes the glass. Any manufacturer can make a small window, test its performance and list the windows series as the highest PG rating, they come up with. I would only suggest to perspective buyers that if PG ratings were important to you in your particular zone, then ask for the report that shows the rating of every window in your schedule. I'm sure what Infinity window you are referring to, but in most cases, they have a PG40 rating.

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Windows on Washington
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Re: Very large replacement project

#27 Post by Windows on Washington »

TSquared wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 7:51 pm
Windows on Washington wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 7:37 pm
TSquared wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 7:33 pm OP, one nice thing about fiberglass windows like Marvins Elevate, Essential or the Infinity series is that Fiberglass has a same basic expansion and contraction rate as glass. Thus, you get significantly less seal failures and frame failures. Fiberglass has strength and because of that you generally get more glass and less frame thickness.
As far as warranties go, The Infinity series has a lifetime warranty.
Budgets are what they are, and we all have to take that into consideration, no matter what we are purchasing.
Don't want to be a contrarian here TSquared, but this is absolutely marketing BS selling spin that was generated by the fiberglass manufacturers.

Not only is the claim of a mechanism and reduction in seal failures provably false, the claimed similar coefficient of expansion is also 100% untrue.
Then we will have to just disagree on this, and the OP can do his research about the expansion and contraction rate of fiberglass compared to vinyl. I have no interest in getting into an argument with anyone here and am just looking to help the public by providing window information coming from my experience and training. I don't charge anything for it and the public can take my information for just a post on an internet forum. Makes no difference to me.
Definitely welcome the contribution and experience. More is more as we say.

But we must also do our due diligence as it pertains to the truth. Would you like an intro to the Contractor's forum? That is where we sometimes discuss more technical things and has out differences of opinion.

masterext
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Re: Very large replacement project

#28 Post by masterext »

I see TSquared’s anti vinyl diatribe was stopped dead in its tracks when he was confronted with the reality that fiberglass windows( marvin infinity) have a lackluster structural DP rating when compared to a high quality vinyl window. I would also point out that fiberglass windows also have much higher(undesirable) air infiltration ratings than a higher end vinyl product. Importantly, the same independent rating agency that performs all the structural testing on fiberglass also perform the testing on wood and vinyl- No bias…
I would also point out that vinyl expansion and contraction will not cause a seal failure. Seal failures are a function of spacer systems and sealants used in the IG.
Higher end vinyl will also expand and contract less than a lower end vinyl.
There is a reason why many window manufacturers threw in the towel with fiberglass.

WindowsDirectCinci
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Re: Very large replacement project

#29 Post by WindowsDirectCinci »

While I like fiberglass for my boat material I don’t see one single benefit in using it over vinyl for windows. Quite the opposite really, usually poor warranties, significant cost & subpar efficiency ratings. Saying it expands at the same rate as glass and that’s why it’s worth significantly more money is pretty silly in my opinion when that has no real world effects on usage. I like the Infinity for aesthetics but that’s about it.

TSquared
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Re: Very large replacement project

#30 Post by TSquared »

Not stopped dead at all, bless your heart. There is obviously the bias on this forum considering who owns it and what they sell. But it's okay, he who is King as they say.
I'll be back later though, Happy Sunday to everyone, and God bless you.

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