correct window measurement?

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gangsterdog
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Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:21 am

correct window measurement?

#1 Post by gangsterdog »

This might seem like I am being picky, but I spent a bit of time picking my replacement windows, but am now worried about the end result. I was prepared to lose a bit of view with the replacement of my old windows, but not as much as seems to be the case with this installation. There is as much as an inch? gap on the side between some of the windows and the frame? And 3/4" on the top? Have had replacement windows installed in 3 other homes, and have looked at those of friends, and have never seen this much of a gap? Am I right to be concerned? Am waiting on final trim and insulation (Hurricane has caused much delay with contractors in NC), so I have pics and some time for discussion - don't want to be a complainer, I like the actual windows, but... wood "shims" on the sides of a 1/2" - is this normal?
Thanks for any help!
Have pics, but am still trying to figure out how to attach. Have gotten great information from this site previously, so, again, thanks in advance!

gangsterdog
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Re: correct window measurement?

#2 Post by gangsterdog »

And I will clarify, since I still can't seem to figure out how to post pictures, I am not complaining or worried about the size of the replacement window frame itself - I have had replacement windows installed before, and was prepared for that. My question is really about whether the measurements were done properly, and if not, should I be worried about anything with that much of a "shim" (1/2" strip of wood on each side, plus what I would consider a reasonable shim), measuring as much as an inch on each side, on a few of the windows.
Thanks so much for any advice

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toddinmn
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Re: correct window measurement?

#3 Post by toddinmn »

I’d say 1/2” per side is good , 1” and I’d infill with 1/2” plywood. I like to run tapered cedar siding on the sill so water drains , this would raise the sill about 5/8 . If the openings are not square the window would be downsized a little more .

Delaware Mike
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:44 am
Location: South Jersey, Delaware, Philadelphia area

Re: correct window measurement?

#4 Post by Delaware Mike »

Todd, one of my now retired installers that's an "old timer" used to refer to tapered cedar siding as "horsefeather." He also referred to all modern OSB 1/2" sheathing as Aspenite (waferboard) and I'd crack up as employees at random lumberyards under the age of like 35-years old would scratch their heads.

A 1" gap is a bit large in my opinion, however they should be able to make correct after all finish work is performed.

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toddinmn
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Re: correct window measurement?

#5 Post by toddinmn »

I could use a horse feather about now.

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HomeSealed
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Location: Milwaukee, Madison, SE Wisconsin

Re: correct window measurement?

#6 Post by HomeSealed »

Good feedback above... An inch is getting to be on the large side, however there are a lot of circumstances here that we aren't privy to. Some older Pella and weathershield casements for example have milled "stops", where the new window needs to be smaller to avoid having to shave those down (very messy and a pain). When insulation is installed you can't see them and what looks like a 1" gap may only be a 1/4" gap or so. Not saying that this is your situation, just an example. Racked frames, stepped jambs from interior to exterior, etc.... Ultimately, as DM alluded to, the real test will be the finished product. A gap that is a little bit on the larger side in itself is not necessarily indicative of a mistake, particularly if they all seem to be measured that way. Probably for a reason.

tru_blue
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Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:02 am

Re: correct window measurement?

#7 Post by tru_blue »

Three thoughts here.

I'd say one inch gaps per side are acceptable but not ideal. Most installers these days would fill that in to about 1/2". However, an inch gap, with shims, isn't so bad as it can be filled in with foam insulation to aid with both thermal insulation and air infiltration. Besides, older homes that have double hungs with weights and pulleys typically had 2 inch gaps per side, but that was pre-1950s.

Second, although you didn't mention it, I'm guessing (and hoping) that you have full frame replacements rather than pocket replacements. An inch gap on each side of a pocket replacement would be rare. And unacceptable in most cases. But there are instances (which HomeSealed pointed out) in which it could make sense to do so.

Third, the bottom line is how it will look when all is said and done. Once they apply the interior casing (if any), will there be an unfinished area between the casing and the existing paint lines or wallpaper? If a full frame replacement is being done, and it is one to two inches narrower than the previous window, at issue is if the interior trim is going to be an inch or so wider to compensate for the smaller window.

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toddinmn
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Re: correct window measurement?

#8 Post by toddinmn »

I would not be happy if they have to compensate by using oversized trim to fill the void especially if it does not go with the base trim and looks bulky. Typically for me I would size my window frame to the size of the existing window frame, if I have to I remove existing trim at time of measure. A one Inch gap may be workable but not sure why one would go with it , I never have and. I think most would not.

gangsterdog
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Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:21 am

Re: correct window measurement?

#9 Post by gangsterdog »

Hey, thanks to everyone who has chimed in! I am still waiting for installers to return and finish my home (death in family of main installer has caused delay), and looking at windows everyday keeps me worrying a little bit, no so much about the loss of window area (I am getting used to less of a view), but whether there might be long term problems because of the gaps between the windows and the existing frame, as well as difficulties with putting in insulation and installation of trim. I am not usually a complainer, but some of my concern is that I was the first customer and a guinea pig of a new computer program the installer was using to do measuring and ordering. The windows (6) installed in the old part of the house seem pretty good measurement wise (it used to be a barn, and I was worried about framing there way more than the addition); in the newer part (built in 1991) - that is where my concerns, and the pretty big gaps are. I have still not figured out how to upload pics on this site, but I have uploaded some to a dropbox folder, and have a link to that which might work - if anyone here could take a look, and see if my concerns have any merit, I would appreciate it! Again, I have had replacement windows installed in 3 different projects before (I work with a Habitat for Humanity rehab group), and those projects were nothing like this...
Thanks to all! here is the link -https://www.dropbox.com/sh/y2c81ifr0mwl ... J7pSa?dl=0
Clare

WindowsDirectCinci
Posts: 251
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:46 pm

Re: correct window measurement?

#10 Post by WindowsDirectCinci »

Thanks for the photos. First off it looks like you got a very nice window in the Sunrise product. Now I'll start by saying that you never know what someone else is thinking and over the internet we will never really know the ins/outs of the project. But from the photo's it appears to me that the windows were measured for a retro fit installation, which is the most common type of install, then somewhere during the installation process the installer had to do a removal of the jambs and header of the old window. This could be because they were measured slightly to tight or during the removal that was the only way to get the old sashes out and the window in place or due to excessive rot/damage or maybe this was the installers plan the whole time? It's hard to tell. Sometimes with any remodeling jobs you have to improvise. as long as the windows are properly squared, shimmed and insulated, (with foam preferably) i don't see any reason you'll have any issues with the finished product performance wise.... If the installer is any good he could finish the inside off with wood returns and you'll have a nice looking job once finished.

On a side note one of the photos with two windows side by side looks to have one of the windows badly out of square. This could be photo distortion? Either way I would check that before he starts to finish the job.

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toddinmn
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Re: correct window measurement?

#11 Post by toddinmn »

It is hard to figure out what is going on .The trim is partially on, the mull spacing is different Window to window, I think the gaps are to large. It will be interesting to see how it is trimmed out. What does the out side look like?

gangsterdog
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Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:21 am

Re: correct window measurement?

#12 Post by gangsterdog »

Thanks guys, and Happy Easter to all! the reason some things are removed is that my home was flooded during Florence - much of the sheetrock downstairs (with trim) was removed when the wet was ripped out. This was all done pre measuring. It does possibly make sense that Jambs were removed downstairs-there were/are some issues with rot - but the upstairs windows had none, and they are the ones with the biggest gaps. I guess I will wait to see finished product, but will have some questions to irritate the installers with when they come back.
As to the windows themselves, I was excited to actually get a chance to order Sunrise, the installer has just expanded into our area, before this, there was no installer that carried. But compared to some Simonton ultra gold ? windows I put in a rehab project (a 1920's Sears/Montgomery Ward home) - the Simonton actually seem a little more finished and solid. I will withhold final opinion until the Sunrise are finished, but for now, the exposed "spring" when you lower the upper sash (not exposed when raise the lower) is especially unattractive and seems cheapish.
And as to the one window out of square? I think it is a photo distortion - all the windows are pretty square, but I will go back and check-
I can post some outside pics later - the old storm window frames are still there, so some issues may not be as clear
Thanks again for the input, I have learned a lot from this site!

WindowsDirectCinci
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Re: correct window measurement?

#13 Post by WindowsDirectCinci »

They can get you jamb covers to cover the balance system. That is sunrise base model and doesn’t come with it but it can be done. Good luck with your project

gangsterdog
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Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:21 am

Re: correct window measurement?

#14 Post by gangsterdog »

Thank you, Windows Direct Cinco - I will ask about the jamb covers, I know it sounds kinda picky, but I put the top sash down more than I raise the bottom, so. I love this site for just that kind of information - I might be aggravating my installer a little, but that tiny thing can make a big difference in happiness. And I am aware that frustration with flood recovery is making me a little more on edge than I am normally, info helps!

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