Please Note! This is our archived old board, it is “read only.”
To visit our current active discussion board click below.
https://www.replacement-windows.com/windowbb/
| Author: | Jennifer |
| Subject: | Is it Lo-E??? |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-25 16:08:41 |
I just had new windows installed this week. Now I'm worried that I may have been scammed. I ordered all Lo-E/argon filled. But, how do I know that's what I really got???
I was told by one of the salesman that gave me a quote (not the one I went with) that the way to test to see if the glass is Lo-E is to hold a lighter up to it & I should see 3 shadows - one of which is pink (verifying the Lo-E). I had tried this on a window that had previuosly been replaced & it worked. But now, on the new replacements I do not see the "pink flame".
Is there another way to tell??? Please help!
| Author: | FenEx |
| In Reply To: | Is it Lo-E??? (posted by Jennifer) |
| Subject: | RE: Is it Lo-E??? |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-25 16:25:36 |
Try the lighter test from both the outside and the inside of the windows. All NFRC rated windows must be shipped with an NFRC sticker on every unit. You can verify the performance numbers from the labels to the manufacturers listing on the NFRC.org to see if they match. If the labels were not on the units when they were shipped, you may have recieved a non-rated product and unless it states Low-E/Argon on your contract you may have a problem. It is your dealer's responsiblity to prove that you got what you paid for... call them. Good Luck.
FenEx
| Author: | Jennifer |
| In Reply To: | RE: Is it Lo-E??? (posted by FenEx) |
| Subject: | RE: Is it Lo-E??? |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-25 17:35:55 |
There were no labels on the units unless they were removed by the installers. However, the brochure for these windows has the Energy Star partner & NFRC sample labels. Also, my contract does state that all of the windows are PPG Solarban-60, Lo-E Glass w/argon.
I want to believe that I got what I ordered, but I'm just not sure.
| Author: | Oberon |
| In Reply To: | RE: Is it Lo-E??? (posted by Jennifer) |
| Subject: | RE: Is it Lo-E??? |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-25 18:19:40 |
Jennifer,
A follow up to FenEx's (excellent) suggestion that you check both the interior and exterior of the window with the lighter.
It seems obvious, but doing the check at night really helps to see the flame reflecting.
Solarban is a softcoat LowE; that's a good thing.
Generally, softcoat LowE is applied to surface #2 on the window. What that means is that it should be on the inside of the exterior lite, inside the IGU.
When you are doing the lighter test, if you see three flames in the reflection, pay attention to the center flame...even if it is not pink, notice if it is closer to the flame that is the closest to you on the exterior lighter check, and if it is closest to the flame that is furthest from you from the interior lighter check. If that is true, then it means you have LowE on the exterior lite...surface #2.
If you don't see three flames reflected, or if you cannot tell if the center flame is closer to you or further from you, then I would call the company that sold you the windows and ask them to check it for you.
There is a really nice laser tool that will show you clearly if there is LowE in the unit and also will show you which lite it is one, and will also show you what thickness glass you have in the window and the width of your airspace in the IG.
I wouldn't recommend that you go out and buy one though, it costs about $300.
Let us know how you make out!
| Author: | FenEx |
| In Reply To: | RE: Is it Lo-E??? (posted by Jennifer) |
| Subject: | RE: Is it Lo-E??? |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-25 18:20:53 |
You most likely did get what you ordered... no need at this point to be alarmed.... and most installers will remove lables so you don't have to. If you or anyone visits the NFRC, you will notice many product listings for each manufacturer and for each product line with drastically different performance ratings. Make sure you get what you are presented... ask for it to be out in your contract. If a dealear says low-E/Argon filled... they may have one that has a U-.36 and another with a U-.25 and still meet the criteria contractually. I would ask your dealer for manufacturer documentation of your delivered product.
| Author: | Ed |
| In Reply To: | RE: Is it Lo-E??? (posted by Oberon) |
| Subject: | RE: Is it Lo-E??? |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-25 18:50:51 |
Please tell me more about the laser tool.
(where to purchase)
| Author: | Ed |
| In Reply To: | RE: Is it Lo-E??? (posted by Oberon) |
| Subject: | RE: Is it Lo-E??? |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-25 18:58:36 |
I often wonder wether manufactures
edge-delete with softcoat?
Or is this really necessary ?
what are your thoughts softhoat vs hard.
Ed
| Author: | FenEx |
| In Reply To: | RE: Is it Lo-E??? (posted by Ed) |
| Subject: | RE: Is it Lo-E??? |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-25 19:07:48 |
Edge deletion is a process that not only removes the low-e coatings but also cleans and slightly etches the glass for better adhesion of sealants, or in the case of Super-Spacer, adhesives. I wouldn't buy or sell a window without it. Soft low-e coats perform much better but are more suceptible to deterioration by oxygen or moisture. In short, if you want the added efficiency of soft-coatings and want it to last, be sure you have a great primary and secondary sealed spacer.
| Author: | JLD |
| In Reply To: | Is it Lo-E??? (posted by Jennifer) |
| Subject: | RE: Is it Lo-E??? |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-25 21:25:49 |
I have worked at a window replacement store for 23 years. After reading your message we went to the windows in our store with a lighter to see if that "test" was correct. It is a true test with one catch. You have to be on the side of the glass that has the LowE to see the "Pink" flame. Perhaps you should test each side. Some companies coat the interior pane of glass and some coat the exterior pane. Only one pane of glass should be LowE. You should also be able to tell in the summer your cooling bill will go down and in the winter if you have a blind open wait until the sun goes down. When you close your blind in the winter you should be able to feel your home heating bouncing back.
| Author: | Marv F |
| In Reply To: | Is it Lo-E??? (posted by Jennifer) |
| Subject: | RE: Is it Lo-E??? - white paper test? |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-26 03:55:45 |
I could see mine had LowE by holding up a white piece of paper close behind the glass and observing the noticeable green color cast. (In my case, this would also be confirmed by the label on the side of the sash that said "LowE2 Argon").
I can only assume the paper test would usually be noticeable, but I could be wrong. Not very scientific, I know.
| Author: | Dan |
| In Reply To: | RE: Is it Lo-E??? (posted by FenEx) |
| Subject: | RE: Is it Lo-E??? |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-26 14:34:50 |
I have recently met with a few of the larger glass manufacturers and they are saying that edge deletion is not necessary with most spacer systems. Most of the window manufacturers I know of do not edge delete their soft coat low-e products.
| Author: | Oberon |
| In Reply To: | RE: Is it Lo-E??? (posted by Dan) |
| Subject: | RE: Is it Lo-E??? |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-26 22:36:39 |
Sorry Dan, but I have to disagree.
Cardinal is the largest softcoat manufacturer, supplying 70% of the entire residential Low-E market, and they are adamant that softcoat must be edge deleted.
Cardinal has supplied the industry with "mountains" of test data indicating that without edge deletion softcoat LowE will eventually fail. They are so adamant about it that they even supply the edge deletion equipment free-of-charge to their LowE customers.
And the test data in question includes all softcoats on the market, not just their own. And the data is very specific that edge deleting works.
Of the 30% of the LowE market that Cardinal doesn't supply, about 15% is softcoat, primarily Guardian and PPG products and about 15% is hardcoat from PPG and Pilkington and others, of course. They realize that Cardinal has a huge edge in this market, and they need to do or say something to erode that advantage.
As a marketing rep of a company that competes with a company that holds a 70% share of the market, I might be willing to state that my product doesn't have the handling requirements of the other product knowing full-well that my product has a very good possibility of failure if it is handled differently - but willing to risk that possibilty in order to challenge the 70% share.
The other softcoat manufacturers know that edge deletion is the only option, and that has been verified by several independent testing organizations as well...but some companies are willing to gamble with their and their customer's reputations in order to attempt to gain a bit more market share.
| Author: | Jeff W |
| In Reply To: | RE: Is it Lo-E??? (posted by Ed) |
| Subject: | EDTM |
| Posted At: | 2004-08-27 12:34:41 |
see "www.EDTM.com", works great, takes .o1 seconds to check if LowE is on the near or far glass of it the glass is not LowE. Applied films do not read.
Jennifer- Any local glass company should be able to check these for you without paper or other prehistoric test methodologies if they are worth there salt. Call 1 and offer them 25-30 bucks to ride by and verify LowE for you.