L shaped pice mounted to window sill during install

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RR60
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:40 am

L shaped pice mounted to window sill during install

#1 Post by RR60 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:50 am

I have installed a few brands in the past. Mostly Simonton and West windows.

Dont like to butcher the outside window stop and find it easier to install from the inside.

But always had a question about the L shaped piece that mounts to the sill and under the new window.

I know a lot dont use and wrap the window after. I like to wrap the sill and then install the L shape piece.

But it seems to me this L piece should not be caulked or should have a drain hole in it. Just in case water got in and it would not be trapped in the sill area.

Any comments?

Thanks

toddinmn
Posts: 561
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:02 pm

Re: L shaped pice mounted to window sill during install

#2 Post by toddinmn » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:02 pm

RR60 wrote:I have installed a few brands in the past. Mostly Simonton and West windows.

Dont like to butcher the outside window stop and find it easier to install from the inside.

But always had a question about the L shaped piece that mounts to the sill and under the new window.

I know a lot dont use and wrap the window after. I like to wrap the sill and then install the L shape piece.

But it seems to me this L piece should not be caulked or should have a drain hole in it. Just in case water got in and it would not be trapped in the sill area.

Any comments?

Thanks
I do not leave weeps, but I do feel it is important to run the aluminum well past the blind stop. I like the aluminum to go all the way under the casing at the sill as well . I do not caulk this joint as it looks cleaner and leaves a rout for water to escape. I prefer the expander with or without aluminum wrap.

Delaware Mike
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:44 am
Location: South Jersey, Delaware, Philadelphia area

Re: L shaped pice mounted to window sill during install

#3 Post by Delaware Mike » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:44 am

Most of the installers that take care of bridging the gap from the replacement double hung window that is present from the bottom of the window to the wood pitched sill wind up with a really tall nose profile well over 2'' in height. That looks strange sometimes in my opinion, however I do like to do this with brick faced homes.

Most modern vinyl windows will have a face utility groove in which the sill angle adaptor snaps into which I much prefer to the older screwed down L-type ones that rode under the window's frame off-set of the sill like we saw in the old mechanical cornered windows. The con of not running a bead of sealant to the sill as it meetings the sill angle would be the homeowner asked why there is a open seam there and explaining that water would need a way to get out could open up a can or worms to them thinking that with the money just spent on new windows by a pro that there is a chance that the workmanship might not be water proof?

The pro would be that we pros all know that bead of caulk gets super dirty in no time and would need as much cleaning as one's kitchen counter to look like it did when the installer left. Virtually not way to keep it clean looking with the water and dirt run off over it. Also, we rarely get to cut them with a uniform rip as typical out of level sills need the window installed level which means the face dimension varies from side of the sill angle to the opposing side once trimmed. Most field guys perform this with their siding snips or utility knife and it's not performed with a 1/64" tolerance like it's leaving a mill cabinet shop.

Guy
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:41 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: L shaped pice mounted to window sill during install

#4 Post by Guy » Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:50 pm

I learned to never order any sill or head expanders with my windows long ago. None of these items have ever met my expectations. Up here in the Northland we love to cap all our windows with aluminum. We take great pride in our bending skills to enhance all our windows. We put the little custom bends in our capping to make look like normal brick mould. We don't just box bend our capping and slap it up. If done correctly it really looks great. We bend each sill plate to bend up and lock into the accessory groove like it's part of the window. We never order windows that leave that two inch gap under the sill. We match the existing angle on the new window to sit down on the sill with only a small gap. We then bend the rest of our capping to match that profile to the top.
We can't always get the perfect jobs. Every job has its issues. If you take the time to get the right window for each opening with proper measurements you're way ahead of the game. By installing each window to fit properly with no large gaps the capping just adds that final touch. This is just the way we do it. It's definitely overkill in some applications. But I always walk away with no regret. My customers are always happy to see us go that extra mile.

toddinmn
Posts: 561
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:02 pm

Re: L shaped pice mounted to window sill during install

#5 Post by toddinmn » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:20 am

Guy wrote:I learned to never order any sill or head expanders with my windows long ago. None of these items have ever met my expectations. Up here in the Northland we love to cap all our windows with aluminum. We take great pride in our bending skills to enhance all our windows. We put the little custom bends in our capping to make look like normal brick mould. We don't just box bend our capping and slap it up. If done correctly it really looks great. We bend each sill plate to bend up and lock into the accessory groove like it's part of the window. We never order windows that leave that two inch gap under the sill. We match the existing angle on the new window to sit down on the sill with only a small gap. We then bend the rest of our capping to match that profile to the top.
We can't always get the perfect jobs. Every job has its issues. If you take the time to get the right window for each opening with proper measurements you're way ahead of the game. By installing each window to fit properly with no large gaps the capping just adds that final touch. This is just the way we do it. It's definitely overkill in some applications. But I always walk away with no regret. My customers are always happy to see us go that extra mile.
I would disagree with how "we" do things and what method is best.

Guy
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:41 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: L shaped pice mounted to window sill during install

#6 Post by Guy » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:05 pm

Todd I sense you think the way I do things is wrong! I'm sorry you feel this way! When I used the word "WE" I never meant for you to be insulted. Here's where I'm coming from Todd. I was installing windows and doors before most of the Pros here were even born or very young at the time. I watched the industry change and got highly involved. I got politically involved by serving on a private committee assembled to change to the building codes we have today. I did it at my expense and helped the DOE make the changes. I've always taken great pride in what I do anywhere I work. I was part of the core group that got these two sites off the ground to become what I think are the best around.
I did it all for free and never insulted other installers on how they installed their product. I would only speak out in a supporting voice and try to influence change. I've done this since 1974 and had to retire last year. Im almost 60 and I loved my job but my shoulder and knee joints need replacement. They are all dust now. I put my time in and always helped anyone needing it. We built these sites to help educate consumers better so they made better decisions. It was also providing help to all those customers who had no idea how to get through the leaking years.
The bottom line is all of us core people have since walked away because of people like you that think they sit above us. So be it! You must be one stellar installer to throw rocks at me. What have I ever done to cause your negative banter?

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Windows on Washington
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Re: L shaped pice mounted to window sill during install

#7 Post by Windows on Washington » Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:03 am

Guy wrote:What have I ever done to cause your negative banter?
With Todd....ha!

Don't sweat Todd. He likes to stir the pot from time to time. You both would probably both like each other if you were to meet in person.

toddinmn
Posts: 561
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:02 pm

Re: L shaped pice mounted to window sill during install

#8 Post by toddinmn » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:37 am

Not saying you're wrong, just saying "we" all don't all do it like that. I was not insulted but I do feel my method is a better approach. I do not want someone reading you're comments and coming to conclusion that I'm doing it wrong. I agree that you're approach would take more time and more precise bends but would not look better or manage water better.
I think head expanders work well on windows that are out square, though I prefer the cleaner lines of utility trim in the accessory groove. I keep lineals on hand for this.
You're bio was nice but I don't see how it is relevant.
Me disagreeing on how "we" do things makes me sitting on top of you?
Me disagreeing on how 'we' do things is throwing rocks?
Does all of "us" mean everyone but you?

TheWindowNerd
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Re: L shaped pice mounted to window sill during install

#9 Post by TheWindowNerd » Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:21 pm

Why not carry on this banter in the contractor section.

toddinmn
Posts: 561
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:02 pm

Re: L shaped pice mounted to window sill during install

#10 Post by toddinmn » Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:43 pm

TheWindowNerd wrote:Why not carry on this banter in the contractor section.
I say the octagon or the bar?

Don K.
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:12 am

Re: L shaped pice mounted to window sill during install

#11 Post by Don K. » Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:58 pm

TheWindowNerd wrote:Why not carry on this banter in the contractor section.
toddinmn wrote:I say the octagon or the bar?
Well shucks, I just got the popcorn maker working! :)

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