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 Post subject: New construction window brands?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:55 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:25 am
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Hi, i am building new construction in eastern NC and looking at Sunrise Restorations, Okna Eco Pro 600 series, and Homeguard Innovations Timberland for double hung vinyl. Can't find a polaris dealer in my area.

Any major differences in these brands? They all seem well regarded in this forum, generally.

I got an initial quote on Atrium 8900 for $35,000 from the home builder company supplying most of my lumber, then realized i really don't want atrium after doing more research.

the okna eco pro 600 series quote was $31,000
the sunrise restorations quote and the Homeguard Innovations quotes were both around $24,000.
it's a big house, has a lot of windows. all quotes for materials only no installation.

Does the eco pro quote seem high compared to the innovations and the Restorations quotes?

anything i need to be aware of or shy away from with regard to these brands?
there will be 4 large fixed picture windows, one of which will have a half round window on top, if any of them do that better than others.

thanks for any advice. if Sunrise restorations and homeguard Innovations are comparable to okna 600, obviously i'd rather go with $24,000 over $31,000!

Would be nice to have an option for fiberglass matching exterior doors also. I know Sunrise and homeguard both offer doors.


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 Post subject: Re: New construction window brands?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:31 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:02 pm
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kam13 wrote:
Hi, i am building new construction in eastern NC and looking at Sunrise Restorations, Okna Eco Pro 600 series, and Homeguard Innovations Timberland for double hung vinyl. Can't find a polaris dealer in my area.

Any major differences in these brands? They all seem well regarded in this forum, generally.

I got an initial quote on Atrium 8900 for $35,000 from the home builder company supplying most of my lumber, then realized i really don't want atrium after doing more research.

the okna eco pro 600 series quote was $31,000
the sunrise restorations quote and the Homeguard Innovations quotes were both around $24,000.
it's a big house, has a lot of windows. all quotes for materials only no installation.

Does the eco pro quote seem high compared to the innovations and the Restorations quotes?

anything i need to be aware of or shy away from with regard to these brands?
there will be 4 large fixed picture windows, one of which will have a half round window on top, if any of them do that better than others.

thanks for any advice. if Sunrise restorations and homeguard Innovations are comparable to okna 600, obviously i'd rather go with $24,000 over $31,000!

Would be nice to have an option for fiberglass matching exterior doors also. I know Sunrise and homeguard both offer doors.


Not familiar with Homegard and do not like Sunrise double Hungs .
I'd go Okna and try to negotiate the price gap.


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 Post subject: Re: New construction window brands?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:07 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:46 pm
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Location: Milwaukee & Madison area
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kam13 wrote:

Does the eco pro quote seem high compared to the innovations and the Restorations quotes?



If all we are doing is comparing numbers with no further details the answer would be yes. That said, the Okna quote also seems low compared to the Atrium quote, especially given that its a much better window.. What's a good deal and what's not? Really hard to say without knowing all details and comparing quotes apples to apples. I'll say this, it is very easy for things to get mixed up on a $30k product order where quantities and options may vary a little.

I'll say this, if all else is equal, the Eco pro is the top performer of the bunch. The Restorations is good and in second, although like Todd I have concerns about the rigidity of the double hung frame. If casements, otoh the Restorations is very good... I'd focus on those two. You could do worse than the Hoemguard, but its nothing special, and in my experience they struggle in the areas customer service, quality control, and warranty service.


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 Post subject: Re: New construction window brands?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:02 am 

Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:05 pm
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Location: SE PA & NJ; DFW/Metroplex
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I would check and double check that the take offs are done with the same specs and quantiies.
As Homesealed mentioned it is to miss something when quoting a larger order.
Were all the quotes done with the same window schedule or master take off? Or did each do a takeoff from prints? If they were all done from a window schedule or master take off then things should be more accurate.
I would check total number of units, special shapes, and glass options ( all options: full screens, color, applied jambs, fins, etc).

theWindowNerd.


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 Post subject: Re: New construction window brands?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:17 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:25 am
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the quotes are all for the same quantity and sizes of windows, i made sure to check that.
the sunrise guy hasn't given me an actual quote yet, just a ballpark number. i requested a literal quote with numbers and options listed.
the atrium, okna, and homeguard quotes are all apples to apples. i need to confirm Sunrise quantity and options.

it's a 100% custom house and it's huge, i learned pretty quick to double check everything bc so far, every sub has missed something in the initial quote.

all options are the same--nailing fin, screens w upquotes for optional fancier screen, standard hardware, wood laminate look interior w white exterior, no grids.

the okna guy has not been super customer service oriented thus far. his initial response was , okna doesn't make a new construction window, he can't help me.
i asked about nailing fins, he said he wouldn't recommend replacement windows w nailing fins be used. sorry.
i asked about the okna 600 eco pro series b/c according to the okna website, that line DOES come in new construction.
he said oh. he didn't realize that. and finally got me a quote

not impressed when the okna dealer doesn't know his own product. i'd love to get a different okna quote but the other dealer okna referred me to said he doesn't want to travel 60 miles to install and isn't interested.


regarding warranties, Sunrise is telling me 99% of their people have the product installed by their dealers. if i choose to use someone else, the warranty will be honored IF installed correctly. I got a distinct vibe that they are setting me up to claim improper installation if any issues arise.

homeguard and okna claim to not care who i use for installation.
tracking down a line on polaris thermal weld.

isn't improper installation going to be the issue even if installed by "authorized" installers? i doubt in real life that any of the window companies are going to be in a hurry to admit their product failed when they can always blame improper installation.


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 Post subject: Re: New construction window brands?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:52 am 

Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:05 pm
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Location: SE PA & NJ; DFW/Metroplex
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See if you can research and find me.
When is expected install?
Yes mfg authorized installer can still make a mistake. It is much less likely to happen and there is a respect between the mfg and mfg installer.

theWindowNerd.


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 Post subject: Re: New construction window brands?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:36 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:46 pm
Posts: 2111
Location: Milwaukee & Madison area
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All of Okna's lines can be installed new construction. The only difference in the window is the presence of a nail fin or not. Some are extruded, some are mechanically fastened in the field. With a woodgrain interior, yours would be mechanically fastened. Some folks don't like that until they are reminded that EVERY wood and fiberglass window has a mechanically fastened nail fin... I will say that I'd be a little leary about the Okna guy you are talking to. Maybe you could speak to someone else at that company that has a little more technical knowledge?

On the Sunrise, obviously waiting for the full quote in writing will be key. Again, great option for casements, not as great if double hungs.

Lastly, warranties and install:
This is where is gets tricky. Most builders sell crappy, cheap windows, and have framers install them. Install quality can be hit or miss. Most window dealers are predominantly dealing with remodeling projects, as people are willing to pay for better windows after they realize that the old ones are terrible, vs those folks building a new home that think any new window will be good. You are in a rare situation being someone that is cognizant of window quality and performance while building a new home. Because of how rare this is, it puts you in a tough spot. Source the great windows and have them installed by the framers/rough carpenters, or hire out the fully "installed" job. Personally, I'd suggest hiring out the whole job. The primary reason why is because of the warranty issue. Most manufacturers will warranty a properly installed window regardless of who puts it in. The problem comes in invariably after install by the framers, where they say that its your "fancy" windows that are the reason that they aren't working well, and the window dealer of course says its the installation. 98% of the time it is the installation. Period. The lack of accountability however makes it very difficult to get past the finger pointing. You will pay more to have the dealer install the windows for you, however it will mitigate the potential for issues, as well as give you one source to hold to the fire if problems should arise.


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 Post subject: Re: New construction window brands?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:45 pm 

Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:46 pm
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If the prices are accurate Sunrise Restorations is a no brainer imo. Although I'd be leary until the actual quote comes in. One thing I'll add is look at actual samples of the woodgrains. They are not created equal and some look more realistic than others. I agree that 99% of window operational problems are related to poor install. Obviously seal failure etc has nothing to do with that. Homeguard is decent imo but nothing special. I'd choose Restorations or Okna


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 Post subject: Re: New construction window brands?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:03 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:02 pm
Posts: 504
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[quote="WindowsDirectCinci"]If the prices are accurate Sunrise Restorations is a no brainer imo. Although I'd be leary until the actual quote comes in. One thing I'll add is look at actual samples of the woodgrains. They are not created equal and some look more realistic than others. I agree that 99% of window operational problems are related to poor install. Obviously seal failure etc has nothing to do with that. Homeguard is decent imo but nothing special. I'd choose Restorations or Okna

I'd assume the Polaris ThermalWeld is the ThermalWeld Plus? I think it would be a viable option and well worth looking into. I believe the Sunrise is under built in more ways than one and should be avoided. Unfortunately the Okna dealer/sales person sounds A bit incompetent.


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 Post subject: Re: New construction window brands?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:26 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:23 am
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Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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+1

If the quote is actually accurate, I can't see a $7,000 justification for the Okna over the Sunrise.

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 Post subject: Re: New construction window brands?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:58 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:25 am
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thanks guys, all very helpful responses!

I am going to track down the polaris thermalweld plus and see if they're willing to talk to me.
I definitely want a detailed list from the sunrise guy b/c his online reviews are not great (not for the windows, for the customer service and install. he's 100 miles from me so not super excited about him installing anyway)

We are a rebuild after a total loss house fire a few years ago. We bought a double wide and put it on our property (in the country, 5 acres) so haven't been in a huge hurry to rebuild. i never planned on building but figured hey, may as well do it right and research every single thing. doing time and materials with our contractor so more incentive to do it right and be educated.

we've been so impressed by the windows in the doublewide that it really highlighted to me how crappy the old house windows must have been, bc the doublewide windows aren't anything special. That, and the old house windows were literally all rotting out of their frames in a 15 yr old house. you just can't do exterior wood anything in eastern NC.

the homeguard quote is actually $29,000 once you add some options they'd overlooked. very close to okna price. making the sunrise quote all the more dubious....

liking okna's product, wanting to find another supplier! we are an hour from raleigh so one hand, that's an hour from a big city and outside how far most installers want to drive. on the other hand, it's a huge project, it's only an hour from a big city, charge me for the driving.

thanks for all the input. the building supplier who's quoted me the lumber/etc gave me the initial atrium quote--the initial quote was for $10,000 silverline actually, and having already said NO BUILDER GRADE WINDOWS PLEASE, i said absolutely not, try again-- has never heard of sunrise/polaris/okna.

i really just need a number for the budget at this point and $30,000 seems pretty close. will continue to chase polaris and another okna source while i wait for the sunrise detailed quote.


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 Post subject: Re: New construction window brands?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:06 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:25 am
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i don't think it matters for window selection but we are doing spray foam installation and 2x6s in exterior walls.
If that changes anything you'd recommend.


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 Post subject: Re: New construction window brands?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:20 am 

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:23 am
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Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC
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Doesn't change anything but just highlights the fact that if you are building a very tight and efficient shell, the windows are going to be the weak point and you want to minimize that spread from window to wall.

Energy does not flow in a linear pattern so the further away from the wall performance the window is, the faster the rate of energy loss at that opening.

You want airtight and high efficiency.

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 Post subject: Re: New construction window brands?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:14 am 

Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:05 pm
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Location: SE PA & NJ; DFW/Metroplex
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You might consider the Okna 5500 if you need a slightly lower cost.
Performance specs are nearly equal.

theWindowNerd.com


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