Window Store MN / Walsh windows

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bluechrism
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Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:42 am

Window Store MN / Walsh windows

#1 Post by bluechrism »

We had a quote today from a company called the Windows store Home Improvement and heard about this window they sell that they call Eco-Maxx
https://windowstoremn.com/Windows/EcoMaxx
Note this is not to be confused with another business called Window Store selling Millgard - not the same company.

This window is made by Walsh Windows and is a variant of their Tundra 600 window
http://walshwindows.com/tundra6000.php

Anyway, they have excellent ratings on BBB, good google reviews etc and had a recomendation on a Nextdoor.com chat about windows, so seemed worth getting a quote from. However, it's hard to find to much independent info as it's a smaller outfit.

The window store claims the window has an argon filled 1" gap between 2 "double - strength" windows, with Neopore insulation in the frames and sashes. There is a Lifetime Warranty, non prorated and transfers to next homeowner for 10 years. The stand on the idea they only sell Walsh in northern US states and Canada and are build for colder climates.
Stats are:
U: 0.28
SHGC: 0.38
Visual transmittance: 0.54
Air leakage < 0.3
Condensation resistance 59.

The quote for 18 of these comes to $20K (14 with wood trim, 3 tempered, all full screens). That price will jump up almost double next month, as this is a Covid 19 special discounted rate or something apparently.

Have any of you come across Walsh or the Window Store. Is this a good deal for windows like this?

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HomeSealed
Posts: 2415
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:46 pm
Location: Milwaukee & Madison area

Re: Window Store MN / Walsh windows

#2 Post by HomeSealed »

Dropping under a .27 u value and 60 for CR is not ideal for your area. I mentioned in the other thread that triple pane would be best and I'd reiterate that, but for a double pane, those are not great numbers. The .38 SHGC can theoretically gain back a little bit of lost efficiency with the higher U value, so this does still meet Energy Star for the Northern Zone because of that. I do prefer this method over going low solar gain (meant for warmer regions) with a darker coating just to squeak out a .27. .27 U value is minimum (highest allowed numerically) for Energy Star in the absence of the higher shgc alternative method....

More importantly, I'd dig into some structural ratings as well. DP, Air Leakage, etc. The listed <.30 is not the actual rating and would be horrendous if it were anything close. You had some nice options mentioned previously in the Softlite and Sunrise. Okna, Starmark, and Polaris are also nice options if you are still looking for additional quotes.

Lastly, without commenting specifically on this dealer but in a more general sense, if anyone tells you that a quote is going to double next month, that speaks volumes. Bigger discounts during a pandemic? Sure. Half off? hmmm... you be the judge.

bluechrism
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:42 am

Re: Window Store MN / Walsh windows

#3 Post by bluechrism »

Thanks HomeSealed,

I'm off to refresh myself on U, SGHC and how they are lied together, as well as to double check that air leakage value - 0.03 would be more likely correct but the sticker on the window said <0.3 so yeah.

Still hoping to hear if anyone has worked with these brands.

bluechrism
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:42 am

Re: Window Store MN / Walsh windows

#4 Post by bluechrism »

So I ended up talking to one of the owners of Walsh Windows today (after a suggestion from the salesman after I asked questions based on comments from HomeSealed above) and he told me for the Windows Store windows are the Walsh 6000 window with Thermal Package #1

Thermal Package #1 (from their website)
1” overall thick dual pane unit consisting of one LoE 272 and one clear pane with EnerEDGE spacer and argon fill.
33% more argon than a 3/4”I.G.
14% more argon than a 7/8” I.G.
Increased condensation resistance.
Increased inside glass temperature.
Save more on heating and cooling costs.

The values above are correct, except that the Air Leakage at 25mph is :
double hung 0.22
casement it's 0.04
picture it's 0.01

Don't know if this changes anything, but it does mean they are not as leaky as originally thought. I am realizing that companies like to quote the Casement figures for air leakage because they seal better than double hungs, which does make the comparisons a little harder.

Do i like these more than the competition like Sunrise/softlite classics? No, but i'm not sure I like them overly less either.
What's the benefit of that 1" thickness - here they are promoting it having more argon and therefore presumably better thermal performance. Is that the way it really works? Are there tradeoffs to that?

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Windows on Washington
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Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC

Re: Window Store MN / Walsh windows

#5 Post by Windows on Washington »

While I like the 1" IGU, the air number on that double hung is really poor. I give them credit for being transparent about it and not trying to fudge the numbers like some large fiberglass manufacturer's do by using astronomically large unit sizes....a 0.22 air infiltration rating is really quite bad.

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TheWindowNerd
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Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:05 pm
Location: SE PA & NJ; DFW/Metroplex

Re: Window Store MN / Walsh windows

#6 Post by TheWindowNerd »

For sure lousy air infiltration test results.
If you like drafts then go ahead.
Minimum standard for me is .05 or less AL.

theWindowNerd.com

bluechrism
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:42 am

Re: Window Store MN / Walsh windows

#7 Post by bluechrism »

I should say at this point we are no longer considering these, I think we have good options from Sunrise and zen/softlite coming in $3k to 6k cheaper.

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HomeSealed
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Location: Milwaukee & Madison area

Re: Window Store MN / Walsh windows

#8 Post by HomeSealed »

That's probably wise... as the others stated, .22 for air leakage is pretty bad. Anything under .05 or so and you are solid.

On the other choices, if you are considering Softlite the LS and Elements are very good, top performers. The Restorations and Vanguard are nice options from Sunrise. Those two manufacturers make some great windows and some others at the bottom of their lineups that aren't befitting of their respective reputations IMO. Don't end up with a Cadillac Cimarron where you fall for the name brand only.
Be sure to do some digging and background work on the dealers that you consider as well. Installation is a very important part of the equation.

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Windows on Washington
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Location: DC Metropolitan Area-Maryland/Virginia/DC

Re: Window Store MN / Walsh windows

#9 Post by Windows on Washington »

+1 to HomeSealed's comments.

I really like the flagship window of both of those lines. There are some mediocre players in their lower line up offerings, so I try to steer folks to those higher end units from each of those manufacturers.

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