Decent quote? - Windows and Door - ProVia

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Pulse
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Decent quote? - Windows and Door - ProVia

#1 Post by Pulse »

3x - ProVia Aspect - Double Hung - DLA-UV Glass
w/DualTech locks, INNERGY reinforcement, Constant Force Roller Tilt

*All windows will be installed replacement style. One of the windows will be installed into a previously removed window's stud framing that has since been covered by drywall. It will require cutting of the siding and interior sill/casing.

1x - ProVia Legacy 20ga Steel Entry Door(style 002) - White
w/ Sidelites on each side(style 160, DLA-UV Glass), FrameSaver, Satin Modern Rectangular Knob

1x - ProVia Spectrum Storm Door(Style 291/full view) - White

------

Price: $5800

What do you think?

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HomeSealed
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Re: Decent quote? - Windows and Door - ProVia

#2 Post by HomeSealed »

That price sounds about right for the entry door with sidelites... before adding the windows, one being an alteration. Very cheap. Is this a reputable company?

Pulse
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Re: Decent quote? - Windows and Door - ProVia

#3 Post by Pulse »

HomeSealed wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:08 pm That price sounds about right for the entry door with sidelites... before adding the windows, one being an alteration. Very cheap. Is this a reputable company?
Yeah, good company, around for awhile, however, they do use high pressure sale tactics. Had to speak to a non-salesman to obtain this price and get past the bullshit.

I can purchase this door from a local supply house for ~$2300, storm door for ~$600, windows for ~$300ea, so lets say $4000 out the door with tax, if installed myself.

That puts the install @ ~$1800 and they are of course making money on the actual product just like the above supply house that is selling to me an individual.

How much should windows/entry doors cost to install each?

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HomeSealed
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Re: Decent quote? - Windows and Door - ProVia

#4 Post by HomeSealed »

I have no idea why they would need high pressure at those prices...

As far as your cost assessment, the way that you are breaking this down is probably fine if you are dealing with the pickup truck contractor as mentioned above, but any reputable business has a cost to doing business in addition to profit, both of which will be over and above the installation price. This project would be a losing proposition for most companies at this price. If you are qualified to install this and the amount of time that you'll spend on it is worthwhile for the savings, then by all means go for it. I don't think that you will find a better price though on a decent product from a reputable company that is more than a one man show. There are subs that would get paid more than $1800 for this scope of work.

Pulse
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Re: Decent quote? - Windows and Door - ProVia

#5 Post by Pulse »

HomeSealed wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:30 pm I have no idea why they would need high pressure at those prices...

As far as your cost assessment, the way that you are breaking this down is probably fine if you are dealing with the pickup truck contractor as mentioned above, but any reputable business has a cost to doing business in addition to profit, both of which will be over and above the installation price. This project would be a losing proposition for most companies at this price. If you are qualified to install this and the amount of time that you'll spend on it is worthwhile for the savings, then by all means go for it. I don't think that you will find a better price though on a decent product from a reputable company that is more than a one man show. There are subs that would get paid more than $1800 for this scope of work.
I just saw a couple other quotes on this board for the Endure/Aspect line @ ~$600 installed. So, that would be my two simple replacements @ $300 install ea and lets say the one that needs the extra trim work @ a $500 install.

So $1100 for windows, then that leaves $700 install for the entry door. Is it really that far off?, what do you think prices should be? I was originally thinking it was too expensive.. :lol:

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TheWindowNerd
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Re: Decent quote? - Windows and Door - ProVia

#6 Post by TheWindowNerd »

I my neck of the woods (Philly)that quote is fair to low.
Not a fan of the arm twisting sales.
If you have the skill and time do it yourself. Do you have a trim brake?

theWindowNerd

uncle eddie
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Re: Decent quote? - Windows and Door - ProVia

#7 Post by uncle eddie »

That price must be materials only. Just about a 45% markup, that's not even a great profit on materials only let alone install. That company will be out of business very soon, just like the majority of contractors that can't figure out how to price their services sustainably.

Pulse
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Re: Decent quote? - Windows and Door - ProVia

#8 Post by Pulse »

TheWindowNerd wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:54 am I my neck of the woods (Philly)that quote is fair to low.
Not a fan of the arm twisting sales.
If you have the skill and time do it yourself. Do you have a trim brake?

theWindowNerd
I do not have a brake and have never tried to rent one, but if I cannot rent one, I can buy one and still come out on top.

I don't know if I want to do this myself though. This would be a few day summer project for me, compared to them coming out and knocking it out in a day.

uncle eddie wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:33 pm That price must be materials only. Just about a 45% markup, that's not even a great profit on materials only let alone install. That company will be out of business very soon, just like the majority of contractors that can't figure out how to price their services sustainably.
What do you mean materials only?

I have quotes from 3 ProVia distributors. The Endure windows range from $275-325, Legacy entry from $1800-$2200, and Spectrum storm from $500-$650 So, obviously the windows have the least margin and the doors have a much larger margin. The distributor pricing could vary by the volume they order from provia or just be because they have a higher mark up. That is what I can get said materials for in my area, as an individual.

The company that I received the quote from have been in business for 30+ years and deal exclusively with provia, so I assume they are getting some nice pricing from provia.

thewindownerd is somewhat in my area(PA). That perhaps can have a lot to do with why he said fair to low while you and the other user say way too low.

I was told this is a 1 day job. Lets say they have 2-3 workers @ 8 hours. Worker #1 gets paid $30/hr, call him the most experienced guy, perhaps a carpenter. Worker #2 gets paid $20/hr, call him a journeyman. Worker #3, a helper, $12/hr. So right there is somewhere around $340-$500.

$3700 - for materials($4000(my cost) - $300(probably a low estimated markup))
$400 - payment of workers
= $4100
$5800 - $4100 = $1700

So is that ~$1700 enough to cover the remaining overhead and profit? I am genuinely interested in how all this is figured out.

masterext
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Re: Decent quote? - Windows and Door - ProVia

#9 Post by masterext »

Im not trying to be rude but perhaps you shouldnt be concerned with how much money a contractor is making unless of course you can share your own tax returns to the contractor. Its very intrusive. i would never allow a customer to ask such questions.

Pulse
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Re: Decent quote? - Windows and Door - ProVia

#10 Post by Pulse »

masterext wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:34 pm Im not trying to be rude but perhaps you shouldnt be concerned with how much money a contractor is making unless of course you can share your own tax returns to the contractor. Its very intrusive. i would never allow a customer to ask such questions.
I never had any intention of asking this contractor what he is making..haha

This discussion started because people said the quote was low. I then went down a rabbit hole trying to figure out what goes into forming a quote. I like to do my research and be well informed. This information would apply to many other construction/trade jobs and then I do not have to make posts asking "is my quote reasonable?".

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HomeSealed
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Re: Decent quote? - Windows and Door - ProVia

#11 Post by HomeSealed »

Pulse, if you are asking if the quote is reasonable, the answer is yes, at worst. Most seem to agree that its actually unsustainably low.

If you are asking for a breakdown of how to financially run a successful contracting business, I don't think that that anyone is going to provide that. What I will say though (and it seems to be the consensus), is that the numbers presented to you in this quote aren't congruent with that. Your logic in analyzing costs is is the same logic that leads to 96% of home improvement companies going under within 5 years (according to the SBA), and why the home improvement industry is perennially in the top tier of most complained about industries with the BBB. This isn't due to "high pressure sales", its due to consumers continuously falling for prices that are too good to be true and subsequently getting crappy work. Frankly, while I'm highly opposed to high pressure sales, this is the very reason why they exist in the first place, because properly run business have to find ways to convey to homeowners that adding the cost of the window + the cost of an installer for a day does not equal anywhere close to the price that is needed to operate a business.

For example:

wages: take those and multiply x's 2 per man hour to cover payroll tax, comp insurance, and benefits. That's before making any profit

marketing: avg cost to get in front of a homeowner is $300-$400 in marketing spend. Bump that to about $1000 for every sold job, or roughly 10%.

Sales commission, support staff (measure guy, receptionist, service guy, warehouse, managers, etc), service after the sale, rent, vehicles, fuel, tools and equipment, permits, credit card fees, accountant, office supplies, etc, etc, etc... not to mention a net profit when all is said and done.

Your effort to breakdown the cost of the company is only relevant if you consider ALL of the costs involved, and looking at only the raw material and labor costs is light years away from that final number. In my personal opinion, I think that there are some red flags about doing business with this company due to the very, very low price, but I know that consumers are seduced by them every single day. What you won't find is affirmation of going that route from those of us that see 25%+ of our business reworking or replacing the shabby work done by those cheap guys.

With that said, I do wish you the best on this project whichever route you choose.

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TheWindowNerd
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Re: Decent quote? - Windows and Door - ProVia

#12 Post by TheWindowNerd »

You can rent a brake and buy a roll of coil.
You can do it.

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