After Install Questions

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megagreg
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:48 pm

After Install Questions

#1 Post by megagreg »

Hello

We finally got our windows installed two weeks ago :D
First I want thank you all for your advices to select the right models, types and options
Our new windows look great and we already got several compliments from our neighbors who are now also looking for replacing their 25y old single pane alluminium windows

We were lucky that our previous windows didn't leak and no rotted studs were found
But some builder-grade wood sills were rotted so we decided to replace them all by acrylic models for a unified result.

The overall result looks great, but looking closer, I have some questions regarding the "finish"
To fit the new windows with thicker vinyl frames, the installers cut the drywall casing and result was not always sharp, straight and clean ending up with some irregular 1/4-3/8in gaps.
Once the windows were properly screwed, the installer went pretty generous on the caulking to hide those gaps even sometime overlaping some drywall damages that could have been patched first for a better finish.
After few days, some holes opened in the caulking since it leaked in the opening resulting in an improper sealing.

Also the acrylic sills they used are 1/2in thick while the old wood models were 3/4in, I asked them if it would be a problem and they told me not at all, but I was surprised that they didn't lift the new one up by 1/4in to compensate the thickness difference.

Also since they replaced the sill and they did the caulking the next day, I also noticed that they put no foam to fill in the space around the window inside the wall

Here are few windows to give you a better understanding of what I am speaking about
Honestly for $20k is it normal quality work for an installer awarded as the Elite Pro Select Contractor by Simonton itself?

ABC Supply missed one window in our order and they have to come to install it when it is delivered.
They said it would be in two weeks, but I don't believe it probably in 1-2months
Thanks God the majority of the caulking looks nice, but your opinion will help me to decide if I ask them to redo the sections of the caulking which look really bad

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Ricknez
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Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:18 am
Location: southern PA, north east MD

Re: After Install Questions

#2 Post by Ricknez »

To be honest, most companies dont do any painting or touch up painting. A one man show may do something like that.
Also, close up pics tend to exaggerate small imperfections that are more than acceptable. A hole the size of a pin can appear large if a picture is taken very close up with a phone.

megagreg
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:48 pm

Re: After Install Questions

#3 Post by megagreg »

Ricknez wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:54 pm To be honest, most companies dont do any painting or touch up painting. A one man show may do something like that.
Also, close up pics tend to exaggerate small imperfections that are more than acceptable. A hole the size of a pin can appear large if a picture is taken very close up with a phone.
Thank you Ricknez for your prompt reply
Exactly the kind of feedback that I was looking for
What do you mean by "one man show"? Are you talking about handyman or drywall company?
I agree with you that close up pictures may exagerate the perspective, fortunately most of the window surrounding looks great at 3-6ft distance but some section look poorly executed especially the bottom part with the sills.
I tought it would be a smart idea to get them replaced the sills at the same time rather than hire another company (ex. for the warranty), but my feeling is that all their guys were not that good with the caulking gun :( so depending who was finishing the window among the three installers, the result was great or poor

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HomeSealed
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Location: Milwaukee, Madison, Northern IL

Re: After Install Questions

#4 Post by HomeSealed »

Most guys installing Simonton from ABC Supply are roofers that sell a window job here and there, but too late to change that decision.

I would have added stops (shoe or something along those lines) around the window perimeter to cover the drywall cut back as opposed to the fat caulk bead. As far as the stools/sills, raising them up would've left a paint line at the bottom instead of the top, but again, a top notch window company would've selected material of the correct thickness, OR had a plan to stack trim or something of that sort. Rickenz is correct that window companies aren't going to do touch up painting etc, but they will generally have a plan to cover up ugly edges, paint lines, etc so that the final product looks finished... then again, while I don't know what you paid, based on the product/supplier selection you probably got a lower price reflecting the level of fit and finish.

Greater concerns: If there truly is no foam around the perimeter that is alarming. I don't doubt that as its harder to do with this type of install. I'd also wonder how they finished off the exterior. Its one thing to be ugly on the interior finish, but the exterior trim work is what keeps water out of your walls so its much more important.

megagreg
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:48 pm

Re: After Install Questions

#5 Post by megagreg »

HomeSealed wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:49 pm Most guys installing Simonton from ABC Supply are roofers that sell a window job here and there, but too late to change that decision.

I would have added stops (shoe or something along those lines) around the window perimeter to cover the drywall cut back as opposed to the fat caulk bead. As far as the stools/sills, raising them up would've left a paint line at the bottom instead of the top, but again, a top notch window company would've selected material of the correct thickness, OR had a plan to stack trim or something of that sort. Rickenz is correct that window companies aren't going to do touch up painting etc, but they will generally have a plan to cover up ugly edges, paint lines, etc so that the final product looks finished... then again, while I don't know what you paid, based on the product/supplier selection you probably got a lower price reflecting the level of fit and finish.

Greater concerns: If there truly is no foam around the perimeter that is alarming. I don't doubt that as its harder to do with this type of install. I'd also wonder how they finished off the exterior. Its one thing to be ugly on the interior finish, but the exterior trim work is what keeps water out of your walls so its much more important.
Thank you HomeSealed for your reply even if it frightened me a little bit.

The company that I hired for this window install was recommended by Simonton as their Elite Select Pro Contractor, which is also awarded by James Hardie for siding, so hopefully they are bit more than roofer installing periodically windows. Now in the current employment situation companies have hired a lot of new people and it is hard to tell if you will get the experienced guys working conscientiously or not…

Your comment confirm my feeling that pro would have prepared options rather than rely on the caulking only.

The lake of communication is another problem since the order stated that windows sills must be replaced by acrylic white models, two weeks before the install date, I asked them to confirm that the sills would be acrylic models and they told me they couldn’t get some. If found some orderable at home depot but let them know they were thinner and they confirmed it would be no problem…

We paid $20,500 for 17 windows including three double sliders nine pictures three casement and two double hung. I confirm that I got cheaper offers but I preferred work with them since they installed perfectly two windows for us in 2019 (without touching the sills though).

Some windows are installed in brick walls and some are installed in siding. To isolate the windows they have been using caulking inside and outside. I confirm that the box delivered with the windows included two cans of expended foam, but when I removed the trim below the window sill that I am now replacing I noticed some gap under the window inside the wall…

We plan to redo our siding next year so they have fit the new windows in our old siding which I plane to inspect and fix with caulk and paint when I get some time…

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HomeSealed
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Re: After Install Questions

#6 Post by HomeSealed »

I'm afraid that those designations are generally pretty worthless. Most companies that specialize in windows at any measurable volume are dealing direct with a manufacturer. With that said, again, that bridge has been crossed so I digress.

You paid a fair price, I'd look for a nicer finished product. I'm hoping that those pics show the worst areas and most of the caulking looks better than that. If not, perhaps some new interior stops could be installed.

Still concerned about the lack of foam and exterior sealing, feel free to post a few pics of that if you'd like.

On the sills, that is a little trickier since you directed them to use those.

WindowsDirectCinci
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Re: After Install Questions

#7 Post by WindowsDirectCinci »

It wouldn't hurt to send them the photos to ask them to clean it up a bit when they come back out.... I wouldn't wait until they come back to address the missing window as they will be unprepared and may put up more resistance. Other than not being insulated I'd say overall those things are very easily rectified although it may be more than they are willing to do. Like others have said it would be pretty easy to add interior stops or 1/4 round to the inside of the windows and would be a super clean install after that. Option 2 which would likely be the easiest is to get that color grey paint and just paint along the inner edge up to the window, assuming they used paintable caulk.

megagreg
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:48 pm

Re: After Install Questions

#8 Post by megagreg »

WindowsDirectCinci wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:41 pm It wouldn't hurt to send them the photos to ask them to clean it up a bit when they come back out.... I wouldn't wait until they come back to address the missing window as they will be unprepared and may put up more resistance. Other than not being insulated I'd say overall those things are very easily rectified although it may be more than they are willing to do. Like others have said it would be pretty easy to add interior stops or 1/4 round to the inside of the windows and would be a super clean install after that. Option 2 which would likely be the easiest is to get that color grey paint and just paint along the inner edge up to the window, assuming they used paintable caulk.
Thanks to both of you for your replys

I will inspect carefully the outside sealing and share with this thread any picture if I see some anomalie.

I will follow your advice and send to the project manager some pictures for them to be ready to address the fixes when they come back
Honestly we are bit upset since we picked this company when the owner told us that he is bit more expensive because he prefer to pay his guy well for them to work better. Also we were very respectful with the crew, ordered pizza and soda for their lunch, offered them at the end of the first day some bottle of wine hopping they would appreciate and take care of the finish the next day :( Now you just confirmed that they did the minimum which is kind of sad. My biggest frustration is that I asked them at the end of the first day if I should do some drywall patching like that it would dry during the night and they would be able to caulk on a clean surface and they told me that with the caulking it would not be noticable which is not true.

Do you have some pictures of the "interior stops" that you are talking about? I searched on Google but didn't find anything "discret"
Is it like a small molding similar to the one below?
"https://www.familyhandyman.com/wp-conte ... t=696,1024"

Quick question about install warranty
The installer company is offering a one year install warranty while the windows are lifetime warranty
If I hire a pro to redo the drywall and the window sills and he removes some portion of the window (indoor) caulking for better result and then put some new silicon, do you think it could void the installer warranty?

Delaware Mike
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Location: South Jersey, Delaware, Philadelphia area

Re: After Install Questions

#9 Post by Delaware Mike »

Most commonly utilized interior stops with sheetrock returns would be simply base shoe molding. Typically pine primed white. Quick and easy. Since sheetrock and joint compound to the returns is sort of goofy in regards to being true, carpenters put the head piece up with straight cuts and cope the two legs in for a tight joint and caulk with a very small bead of PREMIUM interior caulk.

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Windows on Washington
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Re: After Install Questions

#10 Post by Windows on Washington »

As stated previously, some flaking and cracking at that joint is VERY normal with a window removal. Best application there, but a bit more than standard, would be some shoe molding.

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toddinmn
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Re: After Install Questions

#11 Post by toddinmn »

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This vinyl shoe shoe molding. 3/4”x5/16”.
It would match the window and would not need painting.

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Randy
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Re: After Install Questions

#12 Post by Randy »

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Randy
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Re: After Install Questions

#13 Post by Randy »

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