Air-Tite Windows questions

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windowrep · #16 Post by **windowrep** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:42 pm

windowman, how is it you know so much about the air-tite window? how many air-tite windows have you installed or serviced or replaced? not familiar with gilkey, i have never installed, serviced or replaced a gilkey window therefore my common sense and professionalism will not allow me to comment on them. just the way i respond to posts, but obviously not the board standard. have a good one.

window dan · #17 Post by **window dan** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:11 pm

Your swiggle seal, mechanical frame, over priced, inferior product is out dated and its days are numbered.
OH and by the way the discount for putting the sign in the customers yard for life is so tacky and absurd. I cant believe people still fall for it.
If they said heck no youd still give them the discount to make a sale.
SPIRAL BALANCERS "GOOD" PLEASE LIE SOMEWHERE ELSE.
I apologise but all here know why they came up with the condom theory at air tite. (A sleved balancer with grease) NEED I SAY MORE.
How about that warranty does it cover labor for 20 years too or just parts?
Win Admin forgive me please but over priced junk is junk and I will take my suspension with a smile (much like a swiggle seal spacer on the south side)
Add up the facts swiggle seal, mechanical frames, mechanical sashes, misrepresented U values, OSB (not even plywood) reinforcement (if the frame was good at best it wouldnt need it anyway)
I should say something nice though. I like the colors all 2 of them and they do have some very talented installers.

mike.windowguy · #18 Post by **mike.windowguy** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:25 pm

You had me at "mechanically fastened" and "OSB". I think that's all I need to know.

windowrep · #19 Post by **windowrep** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:38 pm

once again i must ask window dan or whatever. how many air-tite windows have you replaced repaired or serviced? thats right none. don't just join a board and feel like you are required to spurt non-sense. if you could read and follow the thread you would have realized that i already addressed your concerns. why not give examples of actual air-tite windows that you have had to replace. give me the customers name and i will refund their money personnally. how about that? by the way nice credentials you have to say anything about a multi million dollar midwestern manufacturer. go grab a couple more windows out of your garage and put them in your buddies house window dan. give me a break

window dan · #20 Post by **window dan** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:49 pm

The last five I replaced was 6 months ago. They were leaking at the gaskets where the jambs were attached at the bottom corners. Also the recycled exterior trim looked horrible and should have been replaced by the installer. They didnt even remove the shutters to caulk down the sides of the coil. (stucco exterior)
The service guy came out several times according to the customer. Added more caulk (never removed the shutters) or pulled the window out to see what was wrong. The OSB was moldy.
Want to say the customers name was Colerain but not sure but the service guys were Jim and or Eric.
Wish I could remember more so this customer could get a refund.
I am going to dig thru my paper work and consult my map make a few phone calls and hopefully get you a proper name and address so you can send this very nice (as I remember) old guy a refund.
The problem with me is I only recently began taking pictures and never really thought of being called out to prove my opinions until now. I will not let it happen in the future.
Now if someone will just tell me how to post pictures on this site. I will try to start posting the good the bad and ugly I come across daily.
Even some of my own. God knows some days I am not perfect and turds dont always shine but I always do my best others do not even try.

windowrep · #21 Post by **windowrep** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:44 pm

window dan, all i need is the correct spelling of the last name and the city/state where the job was located in. also the name of your company and the approximate date when you were there. i can get the rest of the information and see what happened.

earwax · #22 Post by **earwax** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:43 am

window dan, all i need is the correct spelling of the last name and the city/state where the job was located in. also the name of your company and the approximate date when you were there. i can get the rest of the information and see what happened.

Windowrep,

If you actually come through, my hats off to you. Sounds like you will stand behind your product. That is more than I can say for a lot of manufacturers. I have never seen you window out here in the west. I do not think they would sell too well, but you are obviously making a go of it and have some very satisfied customers. Question to all who post here.

WHat would make the best window. Brand names on components a plus if you know them. ie Cardinal 272, BSI balance, Royal extrusion, 3 1/4" deep frame, triple pane. And lastly, what would this window cost to be considered the best window for a customer. Even the fiberglass people can respond.

I would like to take a small poll and see what everyone thinks makes a great window.

windowrep · #23 Post by **windowrep** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:41 am

earwax, yea i guess you could say the owner is "making a go of it" only since 1978 in ten cities throughout the midwest. i don't think there are any plans to go out the west coast, however i will tell ownership that earwax doesn't think they would make it out there. that should put any plans of expanding out there to bed real quick.
as far as your poll goes that is what all the smaller manufacturers are already doing. taking what they want in a window and doing it themselves.
off the subject a little earwax but i need some inside info, from someone in the bay area. what is the word on randy moss's production forecast for the near future? i have him in a big money league and wonder if i should try to trade him. can the rookie get him the ball? thanks for any info.

earwax · #24 Post by **earwax** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:26 pm

Windowrep. I was not insulting you, actually, I was commending your company. My comment on making a go of it was not meant to offend. You are obviously on the defensive on this post. You probably should tell you owner not to come west with that product though. You are right.

as far as your poll goes that is what all the smaller manufacturers are already doing. taking what they want in a window and doing it themselves.

Don't think so. IF that were true, you would not have mitred corners and wood inside your window, plus spiral balancers. Hard Coat Low-E???????? Making a go of it simply means working your way towards becoming a world class window provider. Looking at the window on the website, give me 20K square feet and about 200K and will make the same window. I do not think that most of the people who post here and know about windows would agree that the window you rep is the best in the industry as far as components. Don't get your feathers ruffled. I am sure there are things in the window you rep that you would like to change to either be more competitive or simply to offer a better window to your customer. So........what would your perfect window look like and be made of?

windowrep · #25 Post by **windowrep** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:07 pm

earwax i am not on the defensive or getting my feathers ruffled. did not mean to come across that way. to be honest with you i do not know what i would put in a window to make the perfect window. i have seen spiral balances fail i have seen constant force fail and i have seen block and tackle fail. i have seen welded corners split, i have seen mechanical fastened windows have gaps, i have seen different spacers fail, at this point i believe the company behind the window is the most important part of the window. unfortunately this is not a perfect world and windows are not a perfect science, and things are going to happen, but as long as a company stands behind their work i am happy. anyway what about moss?

#26 Post by **Guy** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:36 am

When it comes to forming an opinion on any window. I think we all form our opinions on what we've learned over the years. We even make real stupid posts that have us eating our shoe from not reading things accurately, as I've done!!

I know I have hard feelings for "Spiral Balances" & "Mechanically Fastened Corners". The spiral balances I've seen fail (other than winding) are bent spiral rods or the complete disconnection at the balance's top where it attaches to the frame. If the connection of the spiral balance to the main frame is reinforced so the screw won't strip or pull out then it should do well. Mechanically fastened corners almost always seem to have issues with squaring up, but really pose no real problems if shimmed in the proper locations (I learned this well when installing some Renewal windows long ago).

Personally I try and base my opinion after I've installed some or had to deal with them in the field. I also listen to other Pro's in the industry and hear their horror stories on certain products. So I know where to look if I come upon them in the future. As far as having any issues with local manufacturer's doing their own thing. I can't bitch. My main supplier of windows is a local manufacturer that I love dearly. They may not be the best in the industry, but they are a high middle of the pack product as far as I'm concerned. I also get my product almost every time within two weeks. Occasionally three weeks if I have a big order or add to my existing one. The best thing is that I'm within driving distance of the factory to pick up my own jobs early or need some parts. They also have their own service people who usually respond the next day if something goes wrong. I haven't really ever needed them other than two times over the past five years.

We all know that the performance ratings are only as worthy as the home we're putting them in. You can have the best window on the market and it can be worthless if the structure is leaking out. The bottom line for most of us is really what we find works best for us in our own neck of the woods. We'll always stay with the people who treat us right and make our lives a little easier. They also have to make a product we can stand behind and sell to our customers. So if it works don't touch it!!!! JMO

windowmann2000 · #27 Post by **windowmann2000** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:28 am

Wow, this thread's gettin a lot of play. The reason things are pretty negative regarding Airtite are if any of the pros here were able to select the components used to make a window, most of the components used by Airtite would not be on that list. I've been at it going on 28yrs and have serviced, or installed or sold just about everything made, including working in a window factory just to get a better handle on things from a manufacturing perspective. I've never sold or installed an Airtite window, but after looking at there spec's.....why would you want to.
Recently I had to reinstall a few Alside Centurions, and thats like trying to shore up a wet noodle. It's a mechanically fastened window and we only sell them to super tight apt owners. Obviously price is the only issue with them. So I'm sure Airtite has it's place, but should be priced accordingly and not represented as an upscale window, when all of it's components are from the bottom shelf.
I'd need more than 20 sq feet to make a window like that, but no where near $200,000 dollars.
Theres a small mfrg about 30 miles from me that probably didn't cost $10,000 to put together. They get their glass packs from Cardinal and the most expensive thing in the place is their saw. and the ventilation system.
There not open every day, but if you want a cheap window, they have it.
Point is, it's not too bad a window as they use a good corner gusset and Cardinal is a good glass pack but it's priced in the $300.00 range, not $500.00. These guys ae so small they have to order their glass packs through a glass house who gets them from Cardinal.
So all you guys that want to become a mfrg, it doesn't take much, but most of us will stay with the better componenst and better overall windows and not buy our windows from the guy next door who makes them in his basement.

earwax · #28 Post by **earwax** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:18 pm

So I'm sure Airtite has it's place, but should be priced accordingly and not represented as an upscale window, when all of it's components are from the bottom shelf.
I'd need more than 20 sq feet to make a window like that, but no where near $200,000 dollars

I agree with your post. It was 20K (20,000) square feet and 200,000 dollars. They said they instulate their glass, so we would need to get a glass drop, scoring and breaking table. We would then need a glass washer and an oven to seal the swiggle.

The frames are welded, so we will need a few saws and a welder. Then the a frames to assemble the windows.

Glass cutting system - 20K
Decenet washer - 50K
Oven - 15K
Decent Saw x3 - 60K
Used Welder - 25K
Misc supllies - 30K

Buying a decent window from someone who already makes a good one......

Priceless.

windowmann2000 · #29 Post by **windowmann2000** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:34 pm

Oops, sorry earwax twenty square feet is the space my wife confines me to most of the time. I get confused.

PrairieRider · #30 Post by **PrairieRider** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:58 am

earwax wrote:
WHat would make the best window. Brand names on components a plus if you know them. ie Cardinal 272, BSI balance, Royal extrusion, 3 1/4" deep frame, triple pane. And lastly, what would this window cost to be considered the best window for a customer. Even the fiberglass people can respond.

I would like to take a small poll and see what everyone thinks makes a great window.

Third party test data(NFRC, AAMA, CAN-CSA) would be a good way to start. Not only thermal performance but also structual is a criteria in my books....i.e. air innfiltration, water penetration. You can have a great thermally performing window using the best glass possible but won't be worth the paper the invoice is printed on if it leaks like a sieve.
Sound abatement may also be considered.