Can anyone tell me how the window market works once I choose the window company I want to use as far as haggling price? Is there usually room in the numbers that sales reps are giving or is the "first price" pretty close to the "real" price.
I know in my business (fence) the "book" price is usually a good deal higher than what you can deal down to...
Amount of haggling with prices?
Reply
Let me guess.. you are a car salesman? A politician? Work at a flea market? A pawn shop?
I know that we don't haggle and many other reputable firms don't either. This is because we offer our best deal the FIRST time, instead of playing games with other people's money. Simply put, we try to earn business legitimately at a fair profit margin instead of offering ficticious price discounts.
You will find MANY contractors that don't follow the same code of sales ethics though. For these companies... haggle your arse off, and if they drop their prices, ask them why they thought you would be foolish enough to pay more than you should... and politely show them the door.
I know that we don't haggle and many other reputable firms don't either. This is because we offer our best deal the FIRST time, instead of playing games with other people's money. Simply put, we try to earn business legitimately at a fair profit margin instead of offering ficticious price discounts.
You will find MANY contractors that don't follow the same code of sales ethics though. For these companies... haggle your arse off, and if they drop their prices, ask them why they thought you would be foolish enough to pay more than you should... and politely show them the door.
-
Window4U (IL)
- Posts: 1548
- Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:46 am
- Location: Sales and Installation in Chicagoland and Central Illinois
You beat me to it FenEx. I took a phone call while typing and you beat me to it.
In my company my first price is my best price for the window and options I quote. I will not drop off of that price.
I tell the homeowners before I give them that price that if they like to negotiate then tell me now ....and I'll add in a thousand for them to negotiate me down.
That doesn't mean there is not ways to lower their bid. They can always drop color or glass options, switch style of window, go to a different brand of window since I carry many, or they can even replace less windows.
On the other hand, many companies employ the use of false drop pricing. Some of these companies are high pressure, some are not.
Unfortunately you will not know which way a company deals with price unless you either have them tell you up front like I do, or you play their negotiation games and find out the hard way.
Personally, I like the way I do it and so do most of my customers.
In my company my first price is my best price for the window and options I quote. I will not drop off of that price.
I tell the homeowners before I give them that price that if they like to negotiate then tell me now ....and I'll add in a thousand for them to negotiate me down.
That doesn't mean there is not ways to lower their bid. They can always drop color or glass options, switch style of window, go to a different brand of window since I carry many, or they can even replace less windows.
On the other hand, many companies employ the use of false drop pricing. Some of these companies are high pressure, some are not.
Unfortunately you will not know which way a company deals with price unless you either have them tell you up front like I do, or you play their negotiation games and find out the hard way.
Personally, I like the way I do it and so do most of my customers.
-
pbiancardi
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:05 am
I dont mean to offend, I just want to make sure I get a "fair" price. The last time I purchased windows I had a salesman basically say I was stupid if I didnt buy from him right then and there, I ended up paying more from another company that was not so insulting. Problem is last time I purchased 2 windows, now I am looking to buy 12 windows, 2 entry doors, and a patio door. I just want to know how the "game" is played (or if it is not a game at all).
-
pbiancardi
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:05 am
Re: Reply
No as stated in first post I work in commercial sales for a fence company. The residential salesman have a "book" price that we want to sell for, but there is a decent amount of room they have to work with that price to compete with other companies, or get customer to sign up on first try, or give discount if job is paid in full before we start. The amount of discount given directly affects the amount of commission the salesperson will make on the sale. If one of our guys quotes you $8,000.00 for a new vinyl fence, you may be able to get it down to $7,000.00 - $7,500.00, just not sure how the window business works.....FenEx wrote:Let me guess.. you are a car salesman? A politician? Work at a flea market? A pawn shop?
I know that we don't haggle and many other reputable firms don't either. This is because we offer our best deal the FIRST time, instead of playing games with other people's money. Simply put, we try to earn business legitimately at a fair profit margin instead of offering ficticious price discounts.
You will find MANY contractors that don't follow the same code of sales ethics though. For these companies... haggle your arse off, and if they drop their prices, ask them why they thought you would be foolish enough to pay more than you should... and politely show them the door.
reply
PB
I understand very well how the sales process you are describing works. It's very common, but is losing traction every year that passes with customer awareness... much like the awareness you are expressing... you know it's a game.
Lets take your fence. Asking for 8k, but able to drop to 7.5k... or even 7k. If your company can't make their necessary margins at 7k... they shouldn't even offer it. If they don't need 8k but start their for price drop purposes, that's playing games. So if they really NEED 7.5 K... that should be their sell price... not more, and not less. If you gave this a try in your business, and explained to a customer, "We want to EARN your business, but we will not play games with your money", while offering your best deal the first time, they will respect this. Once your clients connect with that statement of integrity, and your refusal to move, your competitors are almost certain to pull the pin from that sales hand-grenade by "playing games with the client's money".
If you sell at a necessary margin and show integrity, your client wins too by getting your best deal the first time. This might be slightly less than what you wanted to get, but if you sell twice as many jobs and build a reputation around this, you will be considerably more successful.
As I mentioned car salesman, here is a good example. They are considered notorious for playing with people's money and not being trust worthy, as are most of the remodeling industry companies. One company took a chance.. and advertised "NO HAGGLE PRICING". You get their very best the first time. That company is CARMAX. They have become the largest and most successful national used car company in US history.
Give it a try in your business and you will see what I mean... and then demand the same respect from those that you spend your hard-earned dollars with.
I understand very well how the sales process you are describing works. It's very common, but is losing traction every year that passes with customer awareness... much like the awareness you are expressing... you know it's a game.
Lets take your fence. Asking for 8k, but able to drop to 7.5k... or even 7k. If your company can't make their necessary margins at 7k... they shouldn't even offer it. If they don't need 8k but start their for price drop purposes, that's playing games. So if they really NEED 7.5 K... that should be their sell price... not more, and not less. If you gave this a try in your business, and explained to a customer, "We want to EARN your business, but we will not play games with your money", while offering your best deal the first time, they will respect this. Once your clients connect with that statement of integrity, and your refusal to move, your competitors are almost certain to pull the pin from that sales hand-grenade by "playing games with the client's money".
If you sell at a necessary margin and show integrity, your client wins too by getting your best deal the first time. This might be slightly less than what you wanted to get, but if you sell twice as many jobs and build a reputation around this, you will be considerably more successful.
As I mentioned car salesman, here is a good example. They are considered notorious for playing with people's money and not being trust worthy, as are most of the remodeling industry companies. One company took a chance.. and advertised "NO HAGGLE PRICING". You get their very best the first time. That company is CARMAX. They have become the largest and most successful national used car company in US history.
Give it a try in your business and you will see what I mean... and then demand the same respect from those that you spend your hard-earned dollars with.
Re: Amount of haggling with prices?
PB - I'm in the process of buying windows myself. I had 4 companies come in and give me quotes. When i eliminated one i called them and told them that i was not going to use them. When they asked why i told them that another company was giving me a cheaper price. By the next day they came back to me with a lower price. I then called the next company and did the same. And again the price went lower. By the time i got to the 4th company i flat out told them they would have to give me the windows for a specific price and if they couldnt meet that price then i didnt want their windows. I dont know if i ended up with a good deal or not but it's the price i wanted to pay for the windows that i wanted. If this helps at all i started at 22k and ended at 16,700 for 34 windows.pbiancardi wrote:Can anyone tell me how the window market works once I choose the window company I want to use as far as haggling price? Is there usually room in the numbers that sales reps are giving or is the "first price" pretty close to the "real" price.
I know in my business (fence) the "book" price is usually a good deal higher than what you can deal down to...
-
Skydawggy.
- Posts: 1193
- Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:29 pm
- Location: Northern Virginia
Food for thought:
It's one thing to haggle over the price of an item that you are simply taking possession of; it's quite another to haggle over a product which must be properly installed, and possibly serviced in the future.
Companies who reduce their prices, in the manner described by mike1173, are typically the type that will cut their installers' pay to make up some of the difference. In which case, you will certainly get a crew with a bad attitude. Or maybe you'll get an outsourced crew that floats from company to company, happy to "install" windows for whatever amount they can get. The jack-of-all trades, master-of-none types.
It's one thing to haggle over the price of an item that you are simply taking possession of; it's quite another to haggle over a product which must be properly installed, and possibly serviced in the future.
Companies who reduce their prices, in the manner described by mike1173, are typically the type that will cut their installers' pay to make up some of the difference. In which case, you will certainly get a crew with a bad attitude. Or maybe you'll get an outsourced crew that floats from company to company, happy to "install" windows for whatever amount they can get. The jack-of-all trades, master-of-none types.
Imperial LS Double Pane, Argon Fill, Low-E windows (super-spacer) installedSkydawggy wrote:What brand and model # were the windows you purchased? What features did they have ie. grids, low E etc.?
(2) Softlite halfround, w/ grids, Imperial LS
(1) Softlite pic window, 3/0 x 4/0 w/ grids, Imperial LS
(4) SoftliteDH, w/grids, Imperial LS 2/8 x 6/2
(4) 10” Transoms w/grids
(5) Softlite double hung w/ grids, Imperial LS
18 Softlite double hung, w/o grids, Imperial LS
(1) Transom, 5/0 x 10” direct set, insulated low-e, no grids, glass
(1) 4/0 x 4/0 picture window w/ tempered, obscure glass
(1) Small Picture window in bathroom
Total Price = 16,700
I guess the one thing i have going for me is that the same company installed windows for a friend of mine. I will be getting the same crew that installed their windows. From what i can tell it was a perfect installation.Randy wrote:Food for thought:
It's one thing to haggle over the price of an item that you are simply taking possession of; it's quite another to haggle over a product which must be properly installed, and possibly serviced in the future.
Companies who reduce their prices, in the manner described by mike1173, are typically the type that will cut their installers' pay to make up some of the difference. In which case, you will certainly get a crew with a bad attitude. Or maybe you'll get an outsourced crew that floats from company to company, happy to "install" windows for whatever amount they can get. The jack-of-all trades, master-of-none types.
Typically i would agree with you Randy. But when every compay (4 of 4) that i called was willing to drop their price it would seem to me that it more of a common practice. Maybe it has to do with the area you live in and the amount of compitition that is in the area.
-
pbiancardi
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:05 am
-
Skydawggy.
- Posts: 1193
- Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:29 pm
- Location: Northern Virginia
I don't know the market in your area but, I think that's probably a pretty decent price.mike1173 wrote:Imperial LS Double Pane, Argon Fill, Low-E windows (super-spacer) installedSkydawggy wrote:What brand and model # were the windows you purchased? What features did they have ie. grids, low E etc.?
(2) Softlite halfround, w/ grids, Imperial LS
(1) Softlite pic window, 3/0 x 4/0 w/ grids, Imperial LS
(4) SoftliteDH, w/grids, Imperial LS 2/8 x 6/2
(4) 10” Transoms w/grids
(5) Softlite double hung w/ grids, Imperial LS
18 Softlite double hung, w/o grids, Imperial LS
(1) Transom, 5/0 x 10” direct set, insulated low-e, no grids, glass
(1) 4/0 x 4/0 picture window w/ tempered, obscure glass
(1) Small Picture window in bathroom
Total Price = 16,700
-
pbiancardi
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:05 am