Manufacture insulated glass

[nlipke]

Hi,
We are a company specializing in home restoration. We are looking into the possibility of producing our own insulated glass.
Could someone tell me the kinds of machines and tools that would be necessary for this process or another site to go to for more information?

Thanks,

nlipke

[windowmann2000]

I can't give you exact figures but I know to do it properly the needed equipment runs well over $100,000. I'd find a local supplier or glass house and let them be responsible. The cheap route is to buy some Swiggle and a glass cutter, but you won't be doing anyone any favors.

[nlipke]

Do you know what is included in the $100,000? We have already sought businesses to do the work for us.

[Oberon]

What do you want to produce? Just basic IG units? Argon / krypton fill?
How much automation do you want? LowE coatings?
Energy efficiency requirements? Longevity warranty?

[nlipke]

Just basic IG units. No argon / krypton. No low E coating.
Low to middling automation. A long lasting window that is as energy efficient as possible without the recent technologies. Possibly with a warranty. What does that take? Does someone have a recommendation for where I could go to learn about the process/industry?

[FenEx]

No Low-E and No gas fills is NOT energy efficient. A double pane window today without these will have the same EE of a unit produced in the 1970's. Low-E and Argon has been around since 1982 and is NOT recent technology. The last thing the industry and homeowners need is yet another company manufacturing another misleading product. A double pane is only about R-.2 better than a single pane with a storm window. Possibly with a warranty????

Yikes!

[windowmann2000]

Yikes! I echo FenEx's remarks, whats the point. You can like I said earlier get some Swiggle and a glass cutter, but why it's worthless. You should have some glass houses near you that would gladly give you a tour and that is the route you should take because to do it right means purchasing equipment that probably will never show you a payback. We currently are paying $3.90 a square foot for low-e glass with a aluminum spacer and closer to $5.00 a square foot with argon and Super spacer to give you an idea of what you should be paying. The glass comes with a five year warranty and has some value. To take things a step further you should consider just replacing windows as most older units requiring new IG's are close to the end of there life anyway. Good luck.

[nlipke]

I should have been more explicit.
I would want triple pane, argon/krypton, low E windows on my own home, but this is not my own home.

We are a company that does historic renovations that include any energy efficient features that do not conflict with historic preservation. Our renovations regularly include spray foam insulation, sealed crawlspaces, efficient appliances and sometimes solar hot water and rainwater cisterns.

Often low E coatings produce a bluish tint that doesn't fly with historic renovation. Not using the original old windows doesn't fly with historic renovation either.

Our typical renovation also usually includes true divided light windows (from the 1920-1950s) and a new separately moving storm window.

One client with whom we are currently working would like to use the true divided light window without a separately moving storm by somehow combining the two in one sash.

Do you have any recommendations given these parameters?
I doubt it will ever be airtight enough to warrant argon/krypton fill.

The home buyer realizes that she is involved in an experiment. We serve a small market that gets a tax break for preserving unique architectural features in their renovation.

[windowmann2000]

I hope it's a big tax break. I've dealt with the Historical Society locally and the biggest mistake you can make is taking the first nickel from them. At that point they own you and dictate how any work will be performed. We used Marvin windows for our delema and they were beautifull and everyone was thrilled. Marvin is one of few that can duplicate windows for projects that the Historical Society approves of, at least in this neck of the woods. Have you ever seen a $3500.00 double hung? and it can get higher. The problem here is I'm sure the budget and your trying to keep cost down and do a nice job for the customer. What needs to be done is to get the Historical Society and someone from the Siera club and let's throw in someone from Energy Star and work out a path that can please all including Al Gore cause from outer space you'll be able to see the house will contribute to global warming if not done properly. More seriously to keep cost down all you can do is duplicate what is there getting sashes rebuilt and adding storms where they will let you. Sandwiching glass together isn;t going to do much for the project/

[tru_blue]

One client with whom we are currently working would like to use the true divided light window without a separately moving storm by somehow combining the two in one sash. Do you have any recommendations given these parameters?

Reworking an old single glazed sash into an insulating glass double glazed sash is a bad idea for so many reasons. I realize that your client would like to do so, but you will be doing the Historical Society and the client a disservice by giving her what she wants. Here's why:
1. Longevity of the glass seal. Single glazed windows with an exterior storm window, if properly maintained, could potentially last 100 years or more. Insulating glass (IG) put into a sash that wasn't designed for insulating glass will not last very long. Even if put into a sash designed for IG it will not last as long as the "historic" single glazed windows.
2. Insulating glass is usually intended for a sash that is designed to receive the insulating glass. You're proposing to rework a sash that is not designed to receive anything other than single glazing. You have to cut and alter the sash to make it something other than what it was to be able to change from receiving approx. 1/8" single glazing to receiving 1/2" to 3/4" double glazing.
3. Because of #2 above, the windows will potentially not work well because of the extra weight. The Double hung sashes now would need to hold two panes instead of one, and casements would be even more prone to sagging with the extra weight. And because you'd have to route out the wood to receive the glass, there would be even less wood in the window to stay structurally intact.
4. To make room for insulated glass, you would have to route out the sash both in depth (to make room for let's say 5/8" IG) and in width (to make room to bury out-of-sight into the wood the spacer and sealant on the edge of the glass). There would be a greater chance of the sash falling apart, and now it has to support the weight of two panes instead of one.
5. What type of spacer is being used? What type of seal? How is the new exterior glazing stop engineered to prevent water from getting past the stop and getting into the wood, possibly rotting the window and working on the newly created IG seal?
6. How MUCH sealant is being used to seal the IG? There are some manufacturers that use a narrow bead of sealant in their IG construction because the glass does not sink very far into the sash. Doesn't last as long as ones that have a more generous amount of sealant. If the glass sinks into the sash farther, they can afford to use a wider spacer and sealant system because it's not noticeable since it is buried into the sash.
7. If the wood is damaged or rotted a bit, it is still damaged or rotted after they are done. If the wood was not damaged in any way before they started their makeover, the possibility exists that it might get damaged in the process.
8. Who will service the window when the seal fails? Eventually it will happen.
9. The true divided lite existing muntins would probably not have enough bulk on them to route out for IG, and by burying the edge of the IG into them there would be nothing left. the windload would potentially cause so much deflection that the window could gradually cave inwards.
10. You have to retain the old storm/screens if they would like ventilation without bugs, or buy and/or make screens only and figure out a way to attach them. Since in this case you're looking at discarding the storms, what about the screens? If outswing casements, no problem the existing interior screens can be reused. If double hungs, would new screens look historically correct?
11. You would potentially be introducing a new problem not previously encountered in the home: edge of glass condensation. If it was 0° outside and 70° inside, single glazed with a storm is about 45° center of glass temperature, with a slight drop off at the edge (it varies, but about to 41°). However, if you rework the sashes as you've proposed with clear IG and discard the storm, the center of glass would be approx. 44°, and the edge of glass would significantly drop to about 29°! That's because if one uses an aluminum spacer between two clear pieces of glass, the cold can conduct through the metal spacer, causing condensation to form on the glass edge inside the home if the humidity is at a high enough level. Using a non-metal spacer would improve those values.

Again, I think it would be a disservice to your customer to change a single glazed window to an insulating glass window. It is a problem waiting to happen. It's easy for me to say, but I would walk away from that one. However, if you have to make a living, and that's what the customer insists on, and you don't walk away from it, so be it - you can make it happen and hopefully you won't have problems.