Marvin Windows Sash Rot

[toejam]

I recently noticed my Marvin windows are rotting. The bottom of the bottom sashes are crumbling. I think these are the Ultimate Clad model, and they were a new installation in 2002.

It appears the bottom part of the sashes were just exposed wood: no clading or paint.

The representative examined the windows and offered to give me new sashes for the four windows that are obviously rotting. The homebuilder would then paint the new sashes and reinstall the window. In my opinion, some of the other windows appear to be rotting, as the exposed wood has turned black.

The representative suggested I pay to have the other windows tested for moisture, by using a moisture meter. If these windows do not have moisture, the windows should be sealed with "Lexel", again at my expense.

It seems to me the factory, or the general contractor, is at fault here. Either the factory failed to clad/paint the bottom of the sash, or the contractor neglected to paint the sash. As I'm in the 7th year of the 10 year warranty, I think it's only a matter of time before the other windows start rotting. To paint over a window that has been exposed to 7 years of coastal weather, doesn't seem to be the proper solution.

If anyone has had a similar experience or has suggestions on the proper solution, your response would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[zago]

i don't see how that could be the contractors fault,ulness they were'nt installed correctly and water is getting in. kind of doubt that though because the marvin rep would of picked up on that and jumped at the chance of pushing blame on someone other than marvin. .marvin should replace these windows.

[TheWindowNerd]

The bottom of the bottom rail of the lower sash is to be painted/ sealed by the end user. That would be you the homeowner unless you paid some one to do it. Was the house purchased with a complete paint/stain package?
If so I would think this is a omission error by the painter, which is not Marvins error.

[Windows on Washington]

unpainted wood on the lower rail is a recipe for disaster. That is nothing that would really be considered Marvins fault unless they were specified to be painted.

[toejam]

The bottom of the bottom rail of the lower sash is to be painted/ sealed by the end user. That would be you the homeowner unless you paid some one to do it. Was the house purchased with a complete paint/stain package?
If so I would think this is a omission error by the painter, which is not Marvins error.

The home was purchased new("Turn Key") and I was not responsible for the painting. Why would Marvin not clad the bottom portion? That seems to be one of the most vulnerable areas, since it is exposed to water sitting on the sill. If they come from the manufacturer unsealed (bare wood) then it would seem to be the contractors error. This puts me in a bad spot because the builder's one year warranty has expired, thus I will have to pay for contractor's neglect.

Replashing a sash seems to be a bad solution. Wouldn't the exterior clad seams leak where the lower sash is reinstalled?

My biggest concern is that my other windows are rotting and it doesn't become obvious until sometime after my warranty expires, and this round of repairs is complete. Do you think that extending the warranty is unreasonable?

Regardless of who is to blame, and who is going to pay for the repair, what is the correct solution? What would you do if it was your house?

Thanks to everyone.

[TheWindowNerd]

Itis not clad therefore it needed to be sealed. Pella and Andersen are this same way unless ordered with prefinished interior, other wise the end user needs to make sure it is sealed.
Replacing the sash will not hurt anything, we do it often , sometimes 10 or 14 years old.
I would say it is the painters fault and by extension the builder who was the GC over the painter.
I would replace the rotted ones.
I would treat the others to kill any mold then prime and paint.

[uto]

Old timers on this forum will remember a big long drawn out lawsuit with Marvin 15/20 years ago in regard to this exact problem. I can not believe it is again taking place.
I suspect it is a defect in the wood. Not many people know about Marvin's HUGE plant in eastern Oregon cutting pine wood to use in their clad windows. I was under the impression they were treating their wood to avoid this problem like JeldWen has learned to do with their Auralast. (Billion dollar JeldWen's world wide headquarters is in Klamath Falls another eastern Oregon town. Every so often eastern Oregon has huge beetle infestations that devastate hundreds of thousands of acres of pine.

[TheWindowNerd]

Are you refering to the Marvin rot issue that was a failure of the PPG wood preservative that was used about the time you mention?

[uto]

Yes. Marvin lost then appealed then won and it was finally settled. Several hundred windows here in Oregon were replaced. Mold spores found in most softwoods that are decaying from forest fires or infestations are activated when exposed to moisture with little air circulation to evaporate the water. Pressure treating the wood helps stop this process. That is why I think this homeowner should work with Susan Marvin and find the real reason his windows are rotting.

[JScott]

The builder is responsible for defective workmanship for 10 years.

The builder was responsible for the bottom of the sashes to be painted.

The wood is preserved by AAMA standard.

Marvin received over 150M as a settlement of the lawsuit. PPG was responsible.

The fact that the factory will give you a couple of sashes is above what Jeld-wen would do in this situation. They would sell the homeowner sashes at a reduced rate.

This is your problem as a result of the home not being maintained. You can point the finger to the builder as you purchased a completed home. This home was not finished. Unfortunately you probably signed a binding arbitration agreement and cannot sue the builder.

If I were Susan I would tell you to buy some paint.

[uto]

Marvins' web site has the following statement:

Marvin clad wood products do not need to be painted on the exterior

[addison]

Their warranty also states that any bare or primed wood needs to be painted or sealed immediately after installation (which the bottom of the bottom sash would be, not cladded). Cladding tends to trap moisture against the wood regardless of who manufactured the windows. Take the new sashes, which you are probably entitled and make sure they are primed and painted before they are installed. Maintenance is the homeowners responsibility after that point.

[TheWindowNerd]

JScott's post is clear concise and accurate.

[toejam]

An update..

A representative from Marvin's master distributor examined each of my windows with a device that measures moisture content.

In addition to the windows that had visible rot, he found other windows with moisture above normal levels. All of these windows had the same wind/rain exposure.

The representative commented that the windows were rotting because the water was getting behind the sash, not because the builder neglected to paint the sashes. He admitted that Marvin learned that their process of sealing the sash to the window was faulty, and that they have since changed the process.

If Marvin knows the damage was the result of their manufacturing process, why not replace ALL the windows, rather than just the rotting windows? I didn't pay for defective windows. Is this an unreasonable expectation?

[uto]

Glad to hear you persisted in holding Marvin responsible for rotten sash. Doubt if you can get any free windows tho. Watchfull waiting is about all you can do. I guess your 3 detractors who felt paint was the real problem (addison, JScott and anthony) will have to rethink their advice. My postings were not just off the top of my head but were based on a luncheon date I had with the local Marvin dealer with years of experience with this recurring problem.