I have a few questions regarding this window, and even though I spoke to a sales manager at the showroom, I wanted to confirm it on here as well. I'm seriously considering these windows, as to date, they have seemed to have the best finish and options in the range I am looking for. Even though the frame doesn't have the shadow groove corner, the sashes do, as well as a quarter round edge where the glass meets the sash, beveled edges on the outside, a more stylish pull than the standard one piece full length pull which is just part of the extrusion, all of these features I like.
Here are my questions
1.) Is it typical for the screen frame to be 4 pieces of aluminum extrusion, with plastic corner connectors?
2.) He said they use XL edge (superspacer) and cardinal glass for triple pane windows with lowE squared on both surfaces of the outer panes. Is this true?
3.) Does anyone know if the sash is reinforced at the location of the locks? It seemed to me that the catch on this demo slider had a little play, and I wondered if it was just due to the fact it was a demo.
4.) As far as the frame extrusion design and regarding other windows with a foam filled frame, does it make that much of a difference if the frame has foam or not? Or is it a wash due to the number of chambers in the frame extrusion? I have read a few posts on here basically discounting foam filled frames/sashes as more marketing hype than anything. Opinions on this?
5.) Lastly, since I am having a private contractor install my windows (which pretty much discounted schuco, sorry schuco fans, they were WAY higher than what I was being quoted from my installer - he isn't marking up the windows but maybe 5% at most), is this one of the better windows for the money, and should I even bother with only double pane krypton filled, or is triple pane krypton just that much better?
I'd really like to hear from those that have these windows as well, let me know what you think.
Thanks in advance!
Simonton 9800 sliders/double hungs - comments and questions
Benny
I just recently had the 9800 windows installed. After months of window shopping, and learning an enormous amount of information about windows from the many wonderful experts on this site, I am quite pleased with them so far and feel that I made a good choice. But, the real test will come in the spring and summer when I will be operating them much more. I did choose the Triple pane/Krypton glass package and yes, they do have low E on two sides. You mentioned your concern with the screen, and I must say that if I have any complaints about the window, it is the screens! For as nice of a window that it is, I feel like they stopped short with screen quality. My two concerns with the screens are what you said about the frame (I find them to be a bit too flimsy) and the fact that the bottom of the screen frame does not rest tight on the sill. I wish that it had a track to rest in or something to make a better close at the bottom. I will definitly have more of a problem than I would like with small bugs getting underneath the bottom frame come warm weather. Also the corners of the screen do not rest tight and actually have small gaps where the two pieces of frames meet to create the corner. It looks to me like they cut the pieces of frames too short or something. They are large enough holes that I feel like caulking them in order to keep critters out. When I asked my salesman about this, he checked with Simonton Rep and he told him that it is suppose to be that way to HELP drainage in the event that too much water from a heavy rain gets in and the normal draining isn't enough. Simonton said that if I caulk them up, it will void my warranty. When I look at them, I just can't believe that this is the way they are suppose to be and wonder if I was told the truth. Did I mention that I just can't stand spiders and little critters??? I know that no window will keep them out, but Simonton could have come up with something better than these screens in my opinion!!! Excluding the screen consruction, I think they are a very nice window and I have been happy with all the winter aspects of the window. Good Luck!
I just recently had the 9800 windows installed. After months of window shopping, and learning an enormous amount of information about windows from the many wonderful experts on this site, I am quite pleased with them so far and feel that I made a good choice. But, the real test will come in the spring and summer when I will be operating them much more. I did choose the Triple pane/Krypton glass package and yes, they do have low E on two sides. You mentioned your concern with the screen, and I must say that if I have any complaints about the window, it is the screens! For as nice of a window that it is, I feel like they stopped short with screen quality. My two concerns with the screens are what you said about the frame (I find them to be a bit too flimsy) and the fact that the bottom of the screen frame does not rest tight on the sill. I wish that it had a track to rest in or something to make a better close at the bottom. I will definitly have more of a problem than I would like with small bugs getting underneath the bottom frame come warm weather. Also the corners of the screen do not rest tight and actually have small gaps where the two pieces of frames meet to create the corner. It looks to me like they cut the pieces of frames too short or something. They are large enough holes that I feel like caulking them in order to keep critters out. When I asked my salesman about this, he checked with Simonton Rep and he told him that it is suppose to be that way to HELP drainage in the event that too much water from a heavy rain gets in and the normal draining isn't enough. Simonton said that if I caulk them up, it will void my warranty. When I look at them, I just can't believe that this is the way they are suppose to be and wonder if I was told the truth. Did I mention that I just can't stand spiders and little critters??? I know that no window will keep them out, but Simonton could have come up with something better than these screens in my opinion!!! Excluding the screen consruction, I think they are a very nice window and I have been happy with all the winter aspects of the window. Good Luck!
Cheryl, thanks for your response, I did read some of your posts here and there, and thought that you had decided on simontons, but wasn't sure, good to hear from someone who lives in a similar climate and has had experience with the actual window. Funny part is, those screens are not anything special, one would think you could get custom size screens made and replace the simontons' if you really wanted.
I guess, as fenex had replied to an earlier post, in the higher end windows it's not what you're missing, it's what you are getting (value added extras) when you compare them. As far as schuco goes, well, if I had the extra money in the budget, there would be no question I would get schuco windows, but I can't get the deal with the schuco dealer here that I can with my contractor. Just looking at the few pictures that there are, one can tell there is just a step higher in the details with schucos, but I can live with the screens on the simontons if that is the only real flaw. It's better than not having screens at all on all of my basement windows anyway
I guess, as fenex had replied to an earlier post, in the higher end windows it's not what you're missing, it's what you are getting (value added extras) when you compare them. As far as schuco goes, well, if I had the extra money in the budget, there would be no question I would get schuco windows, but I can't get the deal with the schuco dealer here that I can with my contractor. Just looking at the few pictures that there are, one can tell there is just a step higher in the details with schucos, but I can live with the screens on the simontons if that is the only real flaw. It's better than not having screens at all on all of my basement windows anyway
RC
Thanks, I will keep that in mind. The real test on the screens will be seen this Spring and Summer at which point I will see if they are acceptable. Are the Phantom screens expensive?
Benny
You sound like you have dealt with most of what I did. I also wanted to go with Schuco, but the only dealer around me was just too rediculously high and I wasn't real happy with some of their install jobs that I saw either (particularly the aluminum trimming and caulk job). So, I went with what I felt was a real close second for the money, install quality and warranty. Just to give you an idea of cost difference, I bought 11 large white DH, 1 large picture window and 1 slider all with the upgraded glass package and upgraded full screens for $6595.00. The Schuco dealer quoted me $15,599. Like I said on my earlier post, aside from the screen issue, I am real happy with everything else with the 9800's so far. I am real glad that I went with their Krypton/Triple pane as I can really see the benefits with the winter we have had. Something else to think about and that I did not mention earlier was that I also upgraded to the full screens (upcost was 15.00 per window). The standard screen for the DH windows is a half screen. I just thought a full screen looked better. So, it sounds like you will be going with the 9800's also??? If so, I think you will be happy with them. I must also say that their "look" is sharp as well. Good Luck!
Thanks, I will keep that in mind. The real test on the screens will be seen this Spring and Summer at which point I will see if they are acceptable. Are the Phantom screens expensive?
Benny
You sound like you have dealt with most of what I did. I also wanted to go with Schuco, but the only dealer around me was just too rediculously high and I wasn't real happy with some of their install jobs that I saw either (particularly the aluminum trimming and caulk job). So, I went with what I felt was a real close second for the money, install quality and warranty. Just to give you an idea of cost difference, I bought 11 large white DH, 1 large picture window and 1 slider all with the upgraded glass package and upgraded full screens for $6595.00. The Schuco dealer quoted me $15,599. Like I said on my earlier post, aside from the screen issue, I am real happy with everything else with the 9800's so far. I am real glad that I went with their Krypton/Triple pane as I can really see the benefits with the winter we have had. Something else to think about and that I did not mention earlier was that I also upgraded to the full screens (upcost was 15.00 per window). The standard screen for the DH windows is a half screen. I just thought a full screen looked better. So, it sounds like you will be going with the 9800's also??? If so, I think you will be happy with them. I must also say that their "look" is sharp as well. Good Luck!
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Window4U (IL)
- Posts: 1548
- Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:46 am
- Location: Sales and Installation in Chicagoland and Central Illinois
I don't blame you a bit for not going with Schuco's at that ridiculous price Cheryl. It upsets me that after all the good things I told you about Schuco both on and off the site, that this is the kind of dealer you would end up having to see. I'm starting to wonder what goes through the heads of the Schuco reps who set up and keep some of these dealers.
reply
I agree, it is costing Schuco part of their "new" well-respected stateside reputation and a ton of business along with those dealers. This is exactly why some of the great dealers I know are traveling 2-3 hours or more to satisfy these customers. It is becoming obvious that the so called "exclusive territory" rules have many loop holes... some good, some bad.
wow cheryl, around 2.5x the cost for the schucos is a bit hard to swallow, too bad, because I agree they are a step above, but wow, that's a "flight of stairs above" pricing. The ballpark quote I got wasn't nearly as high, but I don't think I got an apples to apples comparison, but it would have only been more expensive anyway. The estimator at the schuco dist. ballparked my sliders (approx. 54wx48h) at around $850-950 installed, and the 3 lite slider around 1600-1700. I would imagine this would be for inserts, not rough opening front nailers, which at this point I had a rough quote from private installer for around $8000-8500 for 10 windows incl. 3 lite slider, installed in rough opening, jamb extensions, interior trim. I'm not set on the 9800's yet, but so far they are top dog, still waiting to get pricing. I am also looking at heartland windows, as they are a manuf. in close proximity, but don't know much about them. I'm trying to find a local distrib. that I can go check them out.
Regarding the screens on the 9800, the small space on the bottom does belong their for drainage. There is a small break where the screen track meets the main frame and a tab on the bottom of screen corner that holds the screen up a fraction for drainage. If we had a real critter issue I would have been receiving complaints in the summer; I think you will find the screens perform adequately. The screen frames are extruded aluminum and we have not had issues with corners breaking. The screens are fully guaranteed and would be replaced if the corners broke.
Bill
Bill
Thanks for the info on the screens Bill, the screens definitely won't be a deal breaker, but it's nice to know anyway.
However, I am still looking at other windows, it seems like an endless process. A guy at work the other day thought I was psycho, as I had a lady from hurd on the phone and I was grilling her on their vinyl window, asking about who makes their glass, type of IG, construction, etc. I've looked it up on the nrfc, and the numbers are average, anyone have input on the hurd vinyl replacements? My contractor mentioned he put some in on his last job and thought they were a good window, I guess it's a slim looking window, gaining me some glass area. I don't know price-wise where hurd's come in compared to great lakes, simontons, and the quantums, I guess if they're a fair margin less, would they be worth it? Am I putting too much stock into the raw numbers here? Seems that I've read the install can be just as much of a factor as the u ratings on windows. Pretty soon I think I'm just going to flip a coin
However, I am still looking at other windows, it seems like an endless process. A guy at work the other day thought I was psycho, as I had a lady from hurd on the phone and I was grilling her on their vinyl window, asking about who makes their glass, type of IG, construction, etc. I've looked it up on the nrfc, and the numbers are average, anyone have input on the hurd vinyl replacements? My contractor mentioned he put some in on his last job and thought they were a good window, I guess it's a slim looking window, gaining me some glass area. I don't know price-wise where hurd's come in compared to great lakes, simontons, and the quantums, I guess if they're a fair margin less, would they be worth it? Am I putting too much stock into the raw numbers here? Seems that I've read the install can be just as much of a factor as the u ratings on windows. Pretty soon I think I'm just going to flip a coin