Thanks to everyone who has provided education and advice on this board. Much appreciated and made me a more educated shopper.
I need 21 windows. Had several people come and give me bids on Schucco, Great Lakes, Revere, Lindsy, and PlyGem.
Here's some of what has been said:
Revere: (I can't find them on NFRC) "Uses stainless steel spacer and Cardinal glass. Stainless steel is better than aluminum. It has mitered corners rathe than plastic corner connectors." Hould I be thinking who cares, since there are better spacers out there. He mentioned something about a "next generation parachute cord" in the sash (?). Don't recall seeing anything here about that. Gimmick? One more thing, he said "Schucoo does their 'NRFC' ratings 'in house', doesn't let an outside firm do it, whereas Rever does" Worth worrying about?
Great Lakes: He said, "Schucco is manufactured 1/4" short, but 'spring loaded' (i.e. expands to fit the opening) whereas Great Lakes is sized to exactly fit". True, or does it even matter. Another thing that he said was that "in Omaha, you don't really need the triple pane windows. (i.e. not worth the extra money). He said triple panes are more worth it further south where the extra low-e will help more with the cooling costs". True? He also said that it's an extra $100 per window to have it operational as opposed to stationary. True?
Lindsy: (sorry if mispelled) He said this: "Don't go with the triple pane because with the extreme changes in temperature (100 in summer and minus 10 in winter) you will get more movement in all three panes, making it more likely that you will have some spacer failures" True enough to act on the advice? He also said that their window, if I want the woodgrain interior, the woodgrain is wrapped all the way around, whereas the Great Lakes window isn't, so you can see an unsightly "seam" along the edge.
PlyGem: Didn't say anything that I questioned, just don't know all that much about them.
Last question, and I know some shy away from it, but would I go wrong if I went with any of them, or do they all make a pretty good window. (Again, can't find Revere on NFRC, yet their promo material has their ratings.)
One last thing, I'm having siding done too. They all said go with a replacement window (proabably because that's what they sell). None recommended a new construction window, which I know some of you have said may be the better route to go. Small enough difference not to demand a new construction window?
Thanks in advance here, and thanks again for past postings to help me be a more informed consumer.
what about....
Responses
Answers to a few of your questions:
Q: One more thing, he said "Schucoo does their 'NRFC' ratings 'in house', doesn't let an outside firm do it, whereas Rever does" Worth worrying about?
A: Schuco does not create their own NFRC ratings. Their products are tested and rated just like every participating manufacturer.
Q: Great Lakes: He said, "Schucco is manufactured 1/4" short, but 'spring loaded' (i.e. expands to fit the opening) whereas Great Lakes is sized to exactly fit". True, or does it even matter?
A: Schuco products are custom made to order and are NOT (LMAO) "spring loaded". Every window product should be made slightly smaller than the opening to allow for shifting of the house as well as expansion and contraction.
Q: He said triple panes are more worth it further south where the extra low-e will help more with the cooling costs". True? He also said that it's an extra $100 per window to have it operational as opposed to stationary. True?
A: The triple panes offer 2 Low-E coatings but also offer 2 gas-filled chambers. They offer much better performance against ambient heat loss or gain as well as radiant heat transfer. A lower U-factor, keeps more heat in or out no matter where you live... day and night... summer or winter. Unlike most of the industry, Schuco manufactures their own I.G. glass units. The cost difference from double to triple is typically less than $50. Operating windows are more expensive than fixed.
Q: Lindsy: (sorry if mispelled) He said this: "Don't go with the triple pane because with the extreme changes in temperature (100 in summer and minus 10 in winter) you will get more movement in all three panes, making it more likely that you will have some spacer failures" True enough to act on the advice?
A: This is true for most spacers to an extent. However, not for the TPS used by Schuco. It's seal is not compromised by temperature, pressure or Moisture. The same technology is used in dual pane Mercedes S-Class autos as well as aircraft glass applications. Now, if an airplane can go from 0 to 30,000 feet in about 8 minutes without seal failures... I'm thinking it's a pretty safe bet in your family room.
Q: One last thing, I'm having siding done too. They all said go with a replacement window (proabably because that's what they sell). None recommended a new construction window, which I know some of you have said may be the better route to go. Small enough difference not to demand a new construction window?
A: Some so called "replacement windows" are available with nailing fins and can be used in a new construction or full frame replacement. The primary advantage of this is that you can use a larger window and gain a little more glass area. The disadvantage is cost as you will be increasing labor and trimwork.
I find it a little ironic that they all defend their products against Schuco moreso than each other. I am certain that Schuco would be flattered as it appears to have already become the New mark to beat.
Good Luck with your project.
FenEx
Q: One more thing, he said "Schucoo does their 'NRFC' ratings 'in house', doesn't let an outside firm do it, whereas Rever does" Worth worrying about?
A: Schuco does not create their own NFRC ratings. Their products are tested and rated just like every participating manufacturer.
Q: Great Lakes: He said, "Schucco is manufactured 1/4" short, but 'spring loaded' (i.e. expands to fit the opening) whereas Great Lakes is sized to exactly fit". True, or does it even matter?
A: Schuco products are custom made to order and are NOT (LMAO) "spring loaded". Every window product should be made slightly smaller than the opening to allow for shifting of the house as well as expansion and contraction.
Q: He said triple panes are more worth it further south where the extra low-e will help more with the cooling costs". True? He also said that it's an extra $100 per window to have it operational as opposed to stationary. True?
A: The triple panes offer 2 Low-E coatings but also offer 2 gas-filled chambers. They offer much better performance against ambient heat loss or gain as well as radiant heat transfer. A lower U-factor, keeps more heat in or out no matter where you live... day and night... summer or winter. Unlike most of the industry, Schuco manufactures their own I.G. glass units. The cost difference from double to triple is typically less than $50. Operating windows are more expensive than fixed.
Q: Lindsy: (sorry if mispelled) He said this: "Don't go with the triple pane because with the extreme changes in temperature (100 in summer and minus 10 in winter) you will get more movement in all three panes, making it more likely that you will have some spacer failures" True enough to act on the advice?
A: This is true for most spacers to an extent. However, not for the TPS used by Schuco. It's seal is not compromised by temperature, pressure or Moisture. The same technology is used in dual pane Mercedes S-Class autos as well as aircraft glass applications. Now, if an airplane can go from 0 to 30,000 feet in about 8 minutes without seal failures... I'm thinking it's a pretty safe bet in your family room.
Q: One last thing, I'm having siding done too. They all said go with a replacement window (proabably because that's what they sell). None recommended a new construction window, which I know some of you have said may be the better route to go. Small enough difference not to demand a new construction window?
A: Some so called "replacement windows" are available with nailing fins and can be used in a new construction or full frame replacement. The primary advantage of this is that you can use a larger window and gain a little more glass area. The disadvantage is cost as you will be increasing labor and trimwork.
I find it a little ironic that they all defend their products against Schuco moreso than each other. I am certain that Schuco would be flattered as it appears to have already become the New mark to beat.
Good Luck with your project.
FenEx
thank you very much. Does anyone have 2 cents to add to the questions that FenEx didn't address?
One more thing did come to mind. I've been told that triple pane windows weigh more than double. OK sure, but if you have casement windows, for the operational ones anyway, would this put more stress on the lever, making it more likely to fail. (I have Windsor windows currently, and I have had to replace the lever/crank out arm on each window at least twice in 10 years - teeth on the gears keep breaking.)
One more thing did come to mind. I've been told that triple pane windows weigh more than double. OK sure, but if you have casement windows, for the operational ones anyway, would this put more stress on the lever, making it more likely to fail. (I have Windsor windows currently, and I have had to replace the lever/crank out arm on each window at least twice in 10 years - teeth on the gears keep breaking.)
Concerning weight of triple glazed casements
I had this precise concern when replacing two big double casements (138 UI) last Fall.
In the final analysis, I decided to roll the dice on the triple glazing. The Alside Preservation casements we had installed work like an absolute charm. Granted, they're only 6 months old; but I have a high degree of confidence they will work and service my family well for the long haul. One of the items that have particularly impressed my wife and me is the quality of their hardware; very beefy, with quality light years beyond the garbage hardware Lincoln used in our original wooden casements.
The moral to this story, I believe, is that you can confidently choose the biggest, heaviest windows a given manufacturer will quote, especially if you're looking at a true premium offering like Preservation or Schuco.
In the final analysis, I decided to roll the dice on the triple glazing. The Alside Preservation casements we had installed work like an absolute charm. Granted, they're only 6 months old; but I have a high degree of confidence they will work and service my family well for the long haul. One of the items that have particularly impressed my wife and me is the quality of their hardware; very beefy, with quality light years beyond the garbage hardware Lincoln used in our original wooden casements.
The moral to this story, I believe, is that you can confidently choose the biggest, heaviest windows a given manufacturer will quote, especially if you're looking at a true premium offering like Preservation or Schuco.