Milgard Ultra Fiberglass - our experience

[bmorich]

We may be in the minority, but we have been very disappointed with the Milgard Ultra fiberglass windows we purchased.

Since we had not been through this process before, we have learned a lot of things the hard way. The main problem with these windows is that they have a lot of seams where different pieces come together. If you're thinking of something that's constructed like a vinyl window but made of fiberglass, that's not even close to how they're made. Each window is probably made of 10, 15, or more separate pieces that have to be glued or screwed together. Many of the joints present opportunities for water to get in if they are not properly sealed. More than a few of our windows had what appeared to be openings where water could get in.

In particular, the corners of the frames are not welded, they are screwed together (like wood). Since that screwed together corner is not water-tight on its own, they are supposed to have "seam seal" in the corners to give a water-tight seal. Several of our windows were lacking that seam seal in the bottom corners. In other words, rainwater could more easily drain through the holes in the frame than through the weep holes. Milgard did send people out to squirt some seam seal into the corners, but the quality of the work was virtually indistinguishable from what I could have done, i.e. obviously not factory-fresh.

The weep holes have been a story in themselves. We went through probably three sets of weep holes before we got some that actually drained water. We still have two windows where the water stands in the bottom for a day or two after it rains, basically until it evaporates. We've had the installer and Milgard reps involved, and they've said this is basically how it's going to be.

Also in the "we just need to get used to it category", we have some wide single hung windows that won't shut correctly, specifically when closed the moving sash never sits level. Milgard came out to take a look, but they said the big windows just do that and to let them know if we started feeling air coming through where the gap was.

On the one hand, Milgard customer service has been very good about sending people out as we've discovered more and more problems with the windows, and the people they've sent have generally been as helpful as they can. But on the other hand, it's more than a little sad that what Milgard markets as their premium product is so poorly made that all these visits have been necessary.

We should have been suspicious when the Milgard Ultras were cheaper than the Simonton vinyl. Next time, if we can ever afford it again, we will know better.

[Shocker]

Are all the problem windows single hungs? Just curious... I've installed 3 WoodClad picture windows, and a just finished a casement Mine look good but who knows...only had the oldest one in for 6 months.

[bmorich]

Most of the problems have been with single hung windows, but we've also had issues with a couple of our horizontal sliders. The horizontal sliders had issues with gaps in the joints in the lower corners. Another problem with the horizontals is that you can't really inspect the seals at the bottom of the window for the fixed sash since it's obscured by the rail the moving part slides on. At least two of our horizontals had seam seal added by Milgard service reps when they came out on their service calls. Maybe we just got a bad batch, though.

[bmorich]

-- duplicated post removed --

[RC]

Milgard Ultra fiberglass windows........are they still favored by many on this discussion board? I remember a year ago they were the hot topic and highly recommended (I can't remember by who though). I've not heard much discussion about them lately.

[bmorich]

I went with Milgard Ultra fiberglass partly because of the favorable reviews (mostly from a dealer, I think now) and partly because they just looked better to me than the vinyl. Of course, they don't look so good once a little dirt sticks to the seam seal the Milgard reps have squirted into the various cracks and crevices. We would definitely do vinyl if we had it to do over again.

[Randy]

I was one who was recommending Milgard Ultra windows a year ago. But a year ago is a long time, and you will not find any such recommendations from me lately. We have had so many problems with them, that we are not offering them at this time.

We have been told that Milgard is redesigning the entire line of windows and until that is completed, we have taken them away from our sales staff.

[bmorich]

Randy,

thanks for the feedback. So much for the bad batch theory, at least. Right now, we're hoping that home prices take off again and/or I get a big raise. If either of those happen, there's at least a 50/50 chance we'll replace all of our Ultra sliders (vertical and horizontal) with vinyl.

Just to prove they're not all bad, we have been pretty happy with our Ultra patio door.

[Shocker]

Randy could you elaborate on what if any problems you found with the ultra picture and casement windows? Just so I know what to look out for, it would be a great help to me....(particularly if a little silicone would fix whatever problem there is with them). I've inspected mine and the corners were all sealed, and the weep holes appear to work, as evidenced by the witness mark of dust stream from them on the outside.

I hope they don't change the basic appearance, I have about 60% of the house yet to order/install....it would suck if the new design looks different from the old.

[Randy]

First of all, Milgard's fiberglass windows utilize a single wall system, which is very weak and bows easily, and does not allow for a solid corner key, which holds the corners together.

We have had many problems with the sash being too narrow, causing the sash to not align with the frame properly. The single hung windows also utilize a pocket sill which is not good for drainage.

The double hungs are terrible. We had to replace an entire house full of them because they leaked air between the sash and the compression jambs. The screens on the double hungs does not fit well and allows mosquitoes to infiltrate.

The sliders utilize cheap nylon rollers and they hold water because the fiberglass is not sloped to the weep holes inside.

Fiberglass certainly has its strengths, but it also has its weaknesses. Occasionally, the balancer will come loose and pop upward, cracking the fiberglass, and sometimes blowing a hole through the frame. When fiberglass is compared to vinyl, it is usually in terms of tensile strength, which is basically unimportant. We have been very disappointed with the fiberglass windows.

By the way, I have also installed a house full of the Comfort Line fiberglass windows, and while they are much heavier and stronger, their paint finish left much to be desired. That job was almost two years ago, however, and they may have improved that aspect.

My recommendations to Milgard have been:
1) go to a double wall design
2) utilize a quality corner key (as Marvin does)
3) replace the block and tackle balance system with the constant force, or
at least switch to a quality supplier
4) change the single hung from a pocket sill to a sloped sill
5) redesign the screens on all windows
6) install a quality brass roller system on the sliders and improve the
drain system

At this time, I am not offering any Milgard Ultra windows, except for casements and picture windows. Milgard will have to convince me that their redesigned single hungs, double hungs and sliders are truly improved before I will offer them again.

[bmorich]

Randy,
you have come a long way from the glowing reviews you posted for the Ultras on the old board. In those days, the Milgard Ultras and Woodclad were held in high esteem by you and several others on the board. Your opinion (and the others who liked the Ultras/Woodclads) seemed to be based on extensive experience up through last summer. What changed?

I do agree with most of your current assessments of the Ultras. We did in fact have one of the balancers come loose and shoot up through the top, breaking the fiberglass as you described. Milgard replaced this under warranty.

Before buying, we also checked about 20 of the references for our installer including a couple references who had done big installs (20+ windows) with Ultra. Those people were very happy with their Ultras. Ours look great, significantly better looking than any vinyl product we checked (Certainteed, Milgard vinyl, Simonton, Anlin), and we have been happy with their operation with the exceptions noted in my original post.

As I said before, I've been happy with Milgard's service, but am sorry we needed it so often at the beginning. As to the parts issues you mentioned, it seems most of those relate to longevity which will be Milgard's problem, at least as long as we own the house. As for the rain, we only get really hard rain where we live about once every 6 or 7 years.

If we had it to do again, though, I would definitely do vinyl (even though they're all sort of aesthetically challenged) or possibly spend a little more and get Marvin. I would also have gone with a different installer, but that's another story.

[Shocker]

My recommendations to Milgard have been:
1) go to a double wall design
2) utilize a quality corner key (as Marvin does)
3) replace the block and tackle balance system with the constant force, or
at least switch to a quality supplier
4) change the single hung from a pocket sill to a sloped sill
5) redesign the screens on all windows
6) install a quality brass roller system on the sliders and improve the
drain system

At this time, I am not offering any Milgard Ultra windows, except for casements and picture windows.

Thanks Randy for taking the time to do that. I see little on your list that applies to picture and casement windows with the possible exception of the corners, and mine are all perfect. Once the window is installed, I can't see much stress on the corner joints for these two types of windows. My screens also fit perfectly. I think my windows are coming out of their Denver plant. I wonder if they have more than one plant assembling the ultra and woodclads? Maybe they are pultruding in one plant and assembling in more than one?

The thing I noticed right away when I got mine, is how well everything fits together, how tight the tolerances are on everything, including the corners and screens. How slim and clean looking the frames are. And how when you latch the casement, it's like closing the door on a vault, very solid, very reassuring.

I see from some other posts that people are running from the Ultras now because of this thread. If any of you reading this are considering only picture windows and casement type windows, I wouldn't hesitate to give them a look. Clearly there appear to be problems with the hung type, and sliders.

[Win-admin]

Does anyone know someone at the corporate level of Milgard?

It would be great to get some good feed back regarding this issue from them. I am sure they are aware of these manufacturing issues and most likely will take steps to correct them.

If any Milgard dealers who visit the board could get someone from the manufacturing division involved in the thread that would be great.

Win-Admin

[RC]

Does anyone know someone at the corporate level of Milgard?

It would be great to get some good feed back regarding this issue from them. I am sure they are aware of these manufacturing issues and most likely will take steps to correct them.

If any Milgard dealers who visit the board could get someone from the manufacturing division involved in the thread that would be great.

Win-Admin

It would be nice to have representitives from all the major window companies. Other window companies have been criticized in the past without alarm though. Milgard has evidently made some major mistakes with their products, enough to pull the entire line from production (e.g. double hungs)

[Randy]

For a while, we had very few problems. Over the course of the past 10 months or so, we have been experiencing more problems than we want to deal with. Most of the problems are quality control issues, and Milgard is trying to get a second fiberglass assembly plant on-line this year, in California. Once this plant is open, the lead time will get back down to reasonable, and hopefully, their quality control will improve.

Milgard is aware of the problems, which is why they are re-designing the single hungs and double hungs.

I agree, that the casements and picture windows are very good, as are the patio doors and french doors. The problem is, most people want single hungs or double hungs.

I will reevaluate once I have seen the new double hung and single hung windows. Until then, I recommend the Eagle wood windows or Schuco vinyl windows to my customers.