Milgard classic series....Filled with gas for insulation?

[gigglebeans]

We are trying to decide between Milgard classic series or Certainteed Insulate series. The Milgard literature does not mention wherther or not there is gas in between the panes to aid in insulation. We know that the Cetainteed has it. Both say they are Low E glass so this gas issue is really the last thing we are confused about. Both bids are comparable ($400 difference with the Milgard being more). We definitely want the best insulating window so any ideas what that would be between the two?

[eberry]

Argon is an option on the Milgard classic windows (see here), but may be included in your quote. That said, the best way to compare overall insulating performance of a window is to look for a lower NFRC certified u-value of the window (for the whole unit, not center of glass). That number will be around .30-.32 for most mid/high end double-pane Low-E Argon vinyl windows.

[pdxman1]

Argon is an option on the Milgard classic windows (see here), but may be included in your quote. That said, the best way to compare overall insulating performance of a window is to look for a lower NFRC certified u-value of the window (for the whole unit, not center of glass). That number will be around .30-.32 for most mid/high end double-pane Low-E Argon vinyl windows.

I am also looking at the Milgard Classic and was told that the U rating is .34 for the sliding window with Low E and argon, although if I look on their web site, it looks like it says .35 if I am reading the chart right (a big if - it is very confusing).

I am comparing it to the LBL Series 2000 which I am told has a U factor of .31. In the Portland, OR area there is a rebate available (energytrust.org) if you put in replacement windows with a U factor of .32 or better.

[Hotshot]

Though I am not a big fan of either brand, I would quickly choose Certainteed over Milgard with the least amount of consideration. Milgard is one of the few windows still using an aluminum ridged metal spacer between panes, and often uses 1/16 of an inch single strength glass in smaller windows when they can get away with it. More respectable window companies like Certainteed use at least 1/8 double strength glass in all windows regardless of size. Also, Milgard's single hung window is the only commercially available window I've seen that does not fold down for easy cleaning. This means, if you are installing the hung window in an upstairs bedroom, you have to pony up the extra cash for a double hung because Milgard won't redesign their window to fall in line with all the other major window companies. This little fact will never be disclosed by the Milgard sales rep. Good luck.

[earwax]

Hotshot,

Where do you live? If the windows you see from Milgard and Certainteed are on the west coast, you would not be making the statments made, I hope. Aluminum spacer??? How about tin plated steel intercept. There are several companies that use single strength glass. Double is an option. That is kind of like saying that becuase your car does not have navigation, it is a pile of junk. But reality is that you probablly did not need or want to pay for navigation. Why not let the consumer decide what is worth paying for?

Milgard does offer a single hung, it is cheaper that a double hung. In California, most people do not open their windows becuase their neighbor house is 4 feet from their own. So why do you need a double hung? Different markets, different offerings.

I would take the Milgard over the Certainteed made on the west coast. Certainteed is having problems with manufactuing in Northern California and as of late has been looking for a buyer. Anderson backed out of buying them. Hmmmmm, wonder why?

[squeege73]

Wow. We need to send you two to neutral corners.

Certainteed's standard is low e with argon. MIlgard's standard is low e with an air fill. Argon is an option with Milgard and will help with the U values in the Classic. If you are looking for better energy performance (and a window that Certainteed's 3 3/8" frame really compares to for overall build) is the Styleline series. The glass is set directly into the frame on both. The sightlines of the glass and the U-values are similar between both. Certainteed has a cam lock as a standard, Milgard is a positive action lock.

Thermaflect low e is proprietary to Certainteed, and you can't find it anywhere else. Milgard is going to be the first window company on the west coast with Low E 3 available in about 2 months, and you won't be able to find that anywhere else. Again, both things to consider.

If you are going for a wood window look, Certainteed really can't match the Classic. Milgard's warranty is better on the labor part, both are similar on parts/glass.

By the way, I'm in Oregon and I have heard the Energy Trust is out of money for 2006. Better check into that one before holding out on the rebates. Good luck.

[pdxman1]

...
By the way, I'm in Oregon ...

Do you have any opinion on the LBL 2000 vs. the Milgard Classic? Since they are manufactured in Oregon, I thought you might have some experience. Thanks.

[squeege73]

LbL makes a decent window. They typically sell through high pressure dealers, even though not all dealers that carry LbL are high pressure guys. If you look at the LbL vinyl extrusion, it seems awfully bulky. especially in the casement. Their sliding doors are difficult to operate, but their XX slider is rather slick. The main thing about LbL is their fantastic energy performance. That in itself can make it difficult to choose against them.

Try and operate the windows you are thinking about purchasing. That should also help you decide. Good luck.