Very large replacement project

[whitesox05]

Wife & I have a very large replacement window project on our hands with a home in IL:

-57 (!!) total windows
-focal point of the home is family room floor to ceiling windows, 18 in this room alone with 25 ft ceilings and full western exposure
-one two panel door to deck
-one three panel door exiting walkout basement
-custom eyebrow window over front door
-existing windows are builder grade wood and the ones on the western side are utterly destroyed after 23 years

Homes in the neighborhood, despite ranging from 550-1.2, seem to have a mix of vinyl and fiberglass replacement.

We’ve had multiple people come out now of course, and are really debating the vinyl vs fiberglass points. One of the homeowners in the subdivision sells Lindsay Pinnacles, which we are considering and some homes in the subdivision do already have. Another option we’re heavily considering is Marvin Infinity.

Obviously cost difference is massive:

Lindsay Pinnacle - ~78K
Marvin Infinity - ~140K

Any thoughts to these ballparks or other things we should be thinking about?

[toddinmn]

I would get bids that are more direct comparisons.
Vinyl vs vinyl, composite vs composite.
It would be hard to say if they are in the ballpark.
Large windows are expensive, if they need tempered glass more so.

[whitesox05]

Fair point - I have someone coming today who should be able to show both and make this more complete.

That said, thought I read here that comparing top tier vinyl to top tier fiberglass calls for a 30% $ premium on fiberglass? Is that a fair thing to say? More/less? Or has Covid impacted that? Realize that question is broad strokes, just trying to understand what a realistic thought process is.

I've done a fair bit of homework across the board - the Lindsays actually beat out the Marvins across the board on all the energy stats. The Marvins are certainly much more aesthetically appealing. I do like Lindsay's warranty policies, whereas Marvin's seems to have quite a bit of exclusions. Lindsay's seems very cut & dry, and they also have a fairly decent local presence here in IL.

I think the reason for my above question (assuming the quote today both ways is relatively in-line, which I fully expect it to be) is my wife and I are debating if the aesthetics and "longer life" are worth it, and if so, what is that premium worth? It certainly isn't double for me, but trying to figure out where that line is.

[Windows on Washington]

What area of the country are you in? Available material options will be somewhat regional in nature.

Most of the Lindsay quotes we ever see are out of Chicago area even those they are based up in Minnesota. If you are in that neck of the woods....I would definitely call Brandon and the guys at HomeSealed. No better shop or vinyl product in the Chicagoland area than what those guys do.

[whitesox05]

Thanks WoW - located in western burbs of Chicago. Homesealed looks great but they're about 2 hrs north of me. Can't imagine they're willing to go that far?

Any thoughts on vinyl vs fiberglass in a neighborhood that's pretty split?

Should have probably added windows in home are a mix of DH and casement. Having everyone quote it like for like to start given the size and figuring it out from there.

[Windows on Washington]

I do know they have gone to Chicago when the project warrants it. Just as an FYI.

As to the vinyl vs. FG question...mostly comes down to your preferences on aesthetics really. When you compare the Marvin to something like the Okna EnviroStar (800) on thermal performance, Design Pressure, Air infiltration, etc....you are 0-3 on reasons to go with the fiberglass.

[whitesox05]

@Todd - only one of the rooms (3 windows) needs tempered glass. The rest are being quoted by the Lindsay guy as Pinnacle E366 Argon double pane (his opinion is that triple pane is a waste of money especially given how rural the area is, noise is already not a significant factor)

He does make a good point that the fact I'm going to see him VERY regularly (he lives 2 blocks away) is about as good of an insurance policy as it gets that he's going to take the install/job seriously.

If we decide to go vinyl, unless Okna is THAT much better than Lindsay, it's tough to compete with that logic IMO.

[Windows on Washington]

Low-e 366 in Chicago? A climate that has VASTLY more (Nearly 10:1) heating degree days vs. cooling degree days (i.e. amount of time you run your heat vs. AC).

He works in Chicago and thinks triple pane is overkill?

Forgive my critique of your neighbor's fenestration logic. I am sure he is a good guy and perhaps its worth you just doing the job with him to preserve the kind wave and neighborhood spirit, but his blanket and largely incorrect (certainly on the Low-e 366 glass) recommendations do leave some doubt in my mind.

[whitesox05]

I appreciate you being candid! He does seem like a nice guy, but knowledge is knowledge. He almost exclusively deals with Lindsay, so maybe his thought process was that specific to Lindsay, their double pane vs triple pane is not worth it?

Is it worth it to take a look at someone who sells Okna? I do have a dealer nearby it looks like.

[Windows on Washington]

It can't hurt. I would call the guys at HomeSealed and ask for Brandon first. If they will travel for the job, that would be my default go to. Don't know the other dealer, but I do know Brandon's operation.

[whitesox05]

Thanks for the recommendation! Just got off the phone with them and mentioned you - they said because of you and only you they would come this far LOL

[whitesox05]

Also a little concerned the Lindsay price is insert only, NOT full replacement.

I clarified with him and the full replacement cost would be closer to 91K.

Not sure what to make of that or if that changes opinions at all. I am concerned about inserts on the western wall given that there's clearly water damage on the inside of the house so there could be rotting in a handful of them.

[Windows on Washington]

Post some pictures of the damage. Where is it showing?

Most times, an insert is more than fine if done properly and most of the trim rot around most wood windows is addressed. If the leak and rot is pervasive, you will need to identify where it is from and how to fix it. Might still not require full tear outs on all the unaffected units, but Brandon and his guys will know.

[whitesox05]

Will get a closer up tomorrow but this is the family room. Far left and far right windows are casement, center are both fixed, along with everything else.

Water damage is coming from the center two windows, and down into the basement (directly below it) where there's multiple large water spots on the ceiling.

Figured this would be good to show anyway as I had someone else out today and when I asked about 270 vs. 366, he said he would absolutely put 366 in this room just for the western exposure to sun alone (18 of the 57 total windows are in this picture alone), and then at that point, might as well do the rest of the house 366 also.

[Windows on Washington]

I will respectfully, and scientifically, disagree. A two coat Low-e is going to reduce solar transmission quite a bit over clear glass and there will be some appreciable tint increase going from clear to Low-e two coat. You will see at least a 10% reduction in visible light as well as a decent reduction in glare.

If the issue is solar heat felt through the window, you'll see about 40% reduction in that felt energy. Both are going to be massive improvements.

If you are going to put a window on that wall that has more than two coats of Low-e, it should be because it's triple pane glass.

Putting Low-e 366 on a Western wall is fine if you're in a bit of a warmer climate, in my opinion, but that isn't Chicago and if there are any other windows on that elevation (i.e. West Facing), you might see the difference in tint and reflectivity. Something to consider.

As far as the leaks, probably from the mulls and trim. Something that can be corrected with a proper insert application, but that wall of windows might be better done as full tear outs anyway.