Installation Nightmare, Please Advise

Message

Penny · #1 Post by **Penny** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:20 am

I used a local contractor to replace 9 windows. I hired him because he used Certainteed windows (which I researched) gave me a good price, and said the windows would be "factory installed". I thought that would relieve me of any worries about them being installed properly. WRONG!

The day the 2 installers arrived they were minus 2 windows. They didn't know why. They called the company and found out those 2 windows were the wrong size and were reordered. No problem. The installers were very professional and it seemed to me they did a very good job. I did question if the windows were the right size because there was a 3" gap at the top that you could see right through. They told me that would be covered up before they finished and it was supposed to be that way because vinyl expands. That sounded right to me but I still question if a gap that size was good. What do I know?

After they left I noticed a strange sound. It took a minute or two to figure out it was the outside traffic. It was much louder than usual. And, it sounded like I had a tin can up to my ear and could hear the tin vibrating. I had never heard it sound like that. I've lived along this road for 13 years so I know what the traffic outside sounds like. I didn't get new windows for the noise control but I certainly didn't expect it to be worse. I knew it wasn't my imagination. I was going to ask the installers about it when they came back out to install the other 2 windows.

A week later when the other 2 windows came in they sent out a different installer. This time just 1 guy. When I questioned his credentials he said he was a "certified" window installer. I figured he knew what he was doing so I left him alone to work. When he was almost done I went into the room and about fell on the floor. He never put down a tarp and there was debris all over my brand new carpet. The calking around the inside of the window looked like a 5 year old did it. The window sills had big gouge marks and dents. There were gouges, dents and scratches all over the walls. I told him to stop working and leave. He had the nerve to ask me what was wrong. I was in tears. I called the contractor and they said they would be out the next day. The owner's son came out and took pictures. When the owner saw the pictures and how horrible the job was he came out and brought his distributor. They found further damage on the outside of one window, so that has to be reordered. He apologized and said he would have everything fixed and I didn't owe him a cent. (I did not expect him to do that). They covered the outside windows in plastic and said they would send out the original installers when the reordered window came in.

Now, I'm not so sure that the original installers did such a good job because of the outside noise being louder. When I told them about the traffic noise sounding louder after the other new windows were installed the distributor looked at me like I had 3 heads. But, I know something is wrong. It's not so much the increased noise as thinking this could be an indication that they weren't insulated properly or that gap I saw has something to do with the increased noise. Could this be the case? The most important thing to me is getting maximum energy savings and not having leaks that will cause water damage in the walls. The installers certainly won't tell anyone that the windows weren't installed properly. But, I need to know. I don't know what to do about this. Even though the contractor was so embarrassed that he said I don't owe him any money I still need to know if something's wrong with the installation or the windows are the wrong size. Could someone please advise me as to what I should do?

Thank you,
Penny

windowmann2000 · #2 Post by **windowmann2000** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:56 am

After a replacement window is installed there should only be enough room around the window to insulate and caulk.........3" is a wrong size. It doesnt sound like your dealing with professionals.
The biggest comment we usually get is how much quieter the home is after the windows have been put in, so obviously theres too much gap around yours.
Not knowing everything about what's going on contractually it's difficult to offer you advice. Please give some more details.

JScott · #3 Post by **JScott** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:27 am

People who know windows would have never used the brand you used. I am sorry to say you probably got what you paid for. You need to contact the company you purchased the units from and I hope you have not made final payment. It will be your only negotiating tool. Also, let the BBB and Angies list know what has happened to help avoid someone else having the same experience. The state att. general is your next step in resolving the issues if the company will not cooperate. Sorry about your experience. It seems if you ever installed a window then your "certified".

Penny · #4 Post by **Penny** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:09 pm

I don't know what you mean about what's going on contractually. This contractor didn't ask for any money when he ordered the windows. I have not given him a cent. Also, when he saw the mess, he said I did not have to pay for anything. But, I do not think the windows are the right size because I saw the 3" gap and traffic noise is louder. Do I have the right to ask him to take these windows out and install a different size when he's not asking for any money.

I live in Maryland in a small town outside of Washington DC. Does anyone know installers in this area that I could ask for help.

I've got 7 windows installed (I think improperly) 2 half installed and I'm tearing my hair out!!

Help!
Penny[/list]

#5 Post by **Randy** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:08 pm

First of all, JScott's comment about the window brand you used is ignorant. Certainteed, while not among the best window brands, is certainly not among the worst either. Properly installed, you would be happy with the choice.

The first thing that you should do is stop the original company from doing any more work. They obviously don't know what they're doing and can only make the situation worse.

Second, find a professional company in your area to start the job over, with completely new windows. Let the first company owner know that once the new windows are installed, he can come out and get the Certainteed windows that are too small.

Try looking for an AAMA certified installer, and check references before signing a contract.

Good luck to you.

Penny · #6 Post by **Penny** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:35 pm

Thank you for your advise. I can not find a AAMA certified installer locally. This is a small town & I'm lucky to find a window washer! The original installers, who the contractor hired, came down from Baltimore. He said they were trained by the factory. So, now I'm afraid to hire anyone. This contractor I hired has been in business for 25 yrs. & I checked his references. He felt horrible that this happened. That's why he said I don't have to pay him any money and he would take care of fixing this mess. But, he doesn't do installations; he subs that out. I'm going to call Certainteed tomorrow to see what they have to say. The contractor wants to get the original installers back here to reinstall the 2 windows that the 2nd installer messed up. I really think that the other 7 already installed are too small or were not insulated properly. But they are not listening to me.

Penny

JScott · #7 Post by **JScott** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:03 pm

Sorry Randy, I had Owens Corning in my mind. Sorry for the confusion between the 2 brands. You could have used a term besides ignorant. I did take offence at that.

squeege73 · #8 Post by **squeege73** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:34 pm

Penny,

Have you checked the Installation Masters website for an installer? I am including the link and hopefully you can find someone halfway close to your town.

http://www.installationmastersusa.com/Certified.htm

As most window professionals will tell you, a bad installer can make a great window seem horrible, while a great installer can make a horrible window seem great. If you can, contact the AAMA installer in Baltimore or the closest one to you (I noticed one on the website), maybe he/she can refer you to a more local dealer/installer. Good luck with your project.

#9 Post by **Randy** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:19 pm

JScott, sorry you took offense at the term ignorant, however, I took offense that someone would be so callous as to tell a homeowner who is in Penny's situation; "People who know windows would have never used the brand you used. I am sorry to say you probably got what you paid for." Piling on a homeowner who has been screwed by an window contractor is offensive to me.

Penny · #10 Post by **Penny** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:47 pm

Randy...I took what JScott said with a grain of salt; as his opinion. I knew Certainteed were neither the best or the worst.

Penny · #11 Post by **Penny** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:58 pm

squeege73...Thank you for the link. I'm going to keep that in mind to call someone from there if I find out I can't work with this contractor. He had to go out of town for a week so I'm waiting for his return. In the mean time his distributor was supposed to talk to the original installers to find out why outside noises are louder now. (I don't think he believed me). But, I did question the installers about the 3" gap. If they don't own up to it then I'm going to request that the contractor use different installers. This contractor felt horrible and was very embarrassed. Is doing it this way dumb on my part??

Penny