I posted this as part of a list of questions a few weeks ago, but didn't get it answered, so I'm trying separately:
What is the real practical difference between .22 U and .30 U here in MN? Is triple glaze krypton overkill in an older fairly leaky home? Am I really going to notice a difference either in how it feels or gas use? What about difference between .30 and .33? We spend about $700/yr on gas heat and have no AC.
I'm debating between vinyl and fiberglass. Thanks!
Is triple glaze krypton overkill in a leaky home?
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Windows on Washington
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You will get mixed answers here on only a good energy audit would be able to properly identfy where you money would best be spent. I would imagine that if it is not a tremendous kick in the wallet that triple glazing would be a nice option in MN. A good window with great air infiltration number and nice glazing that was installed properly and foam sealed should really improve the comfort in your home and help energy consumption.
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usmarine0352
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In a tight home, it could be a good difference, however, probably not anything that would be amazing. Depending on how leaky your home is, it could be a crap shoot. If it's tight, .30 to .33 isn't really a huge difference.
If your house isn't really leaky, having better windows will not only save you energy, but make your entire home feel more comfortable. Which is important. Some people put in new windows and still have condensation on their windows and it feels cold in their homes.
On your NFRC sticker should help you by looking at the "Condensation Resistance" rating. The higher the rating the better your window will do at stopping condensation in your home. Roughly a .17 will have a 70 rating, and a .34 will have about 48. So that's substantial.
Fiberglass is really becoming a popular option here in MN. We installed Inline Fiberglass windows at the Eco House in the State Fair.Fiberglass windows have less of a chance of seal failure, thinner frames for more glass area, extreme strength so you can make large windows, paintability with over 1,000 colors inside and out, or a stainable wood interior.
If your house isn't really leaky, having better windows will not only save you energy, but make your entire home feel more comfortable. Which is important. Some people put in new windows and still have condensation on their windows and it feels cold in their homes.
On your NFRC sticker should help you by looking at the "Condensation Resistance" rating. The higher the rating the better your window will do at stopping condensation in your home. Roughly a .17 will have a 70 rating, and a .34 will have about 48. So that's substantial.
Fiberglass is really becoming a popular option here in MN. We installed Inline Fiberglass windows at the Eco House in the State Fair.Fiberglass windows have less of a chance of seal failure, thinner frames for more glass area, extreme strength so you can make large windows, paintability with over 1,000 colors inside and out, or a stainable wood interior.
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usmarine0352
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Condensation has never been a problem with our single glazed aluminum windows in our 1904 home, and I attributed it to the fact that the home isn't all that tight, though we've done what we could with caulk and insulation. Is there a reason to believe that with better windows (and most any would be better!) we'd start to have a condensation problem?
Infinity has a condensation resistance rating of 56, Comfortline (Krypton) is 64. Can't find Inline on the NFRC website. Is it under another name? Actually I frequently can't tell which window is which on NFRC site and can't find some at all (for ex. Milgard doesn’t list anything <.49U). Am I missing something? Thanks for the help!
Infinity has a condensation resistance rating of 56, Comfortline (Krypton) is 64. Can't find Inline on the NFRC website. Is it under another name? Actually I frequently can't tell which window is which on NFRC site and can't find some at all (for ex. Milgard doesn’t list anything <.49U). Am I missing something? Thanks for the help!
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usmarine0352
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Your are probably correct with the air tightness of your older windows. Sometimes if you put a tighter window in there and you have a somewhat tight home, then it becomes an issue. I've seen more of a problem with people who put new siding on and have condensation issues.bjgrove wrote:Condensation has never been a problem with our single glazed aluminum windows in our 1904 home, and I attributed it to the fact that the home isn't all that tight, though we've done what we could with caulk and insulation. Is there a reason to believe that with better windows (and most any would be better!) we'd start to have a condensation problem?
Infinity has a condensation resistance rating of 56, Comfortline (Krypton) is 64. Can't find Inline on the NFRC website. Is it under another name? Actually I frequently can't tell which window is which on NFRC site and can't find some at all (for ex. Milgard doesn’t list anything <.49U). Am I missing something? Thanks for the help!
There is one reason you may have more problems with newer windows. You've seen quite a few windows and you will notice almost all of them have aluminum or steel spacers between the glass. (You don't have this with your single pane glass.) Aluminum and steel is used in pots and pans for the fact that they are great conductors of heat and cold. Steel being less conductive then aluminum. Now that you have a cold piece of metal in your window, that you didn't have earlier, that's where the cold will migrate too. Similar to someone with glasses walking inside a warm house from outside where it's colder and their glasses immediately fog up. This might happen now.
Inline is Canadian and are newer to the US, their windows have been tested by the NFRC and should have their numbers up by the end of the State Fair.
Their windows have been used in the Marriot Hotel chain, government buildings and other large commercial buildings that are looking for the ultimate in energy efficiency. Their U-Value numbers for Double Pane Argon are apprx. .20 to .22.
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usmarine0352
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They are probably a bit more expensive. But if you look at the two frames and compare them, you'll see a big difference.
The Inline Fiberglass are in the Eco House at the State Fair for their Energy Efficiency. That speaks volumes for itself. Everyone else wanted to be in there and Inline was chosen.
It is a double pane with argon and 2 coats of Low-E, being built tight and well constructed also helps it get it's lower U-Value.
The Inline Fiberglass are in the Eco House at the State Fair for their Energy Efficiency. That speaks volumes for itself. Everyone else wanted to be in there and Inline was chosen.
It is a double pane with argon and 2 coats of Low-E, being built tight and well constructed also helps it get it's lower U-Value.
Reply
http://www.inlinefiberglass.com/product ... r_test.htm
Their site shows a U-Factor of .37 for a double hung utilizing dbl-pane/Low-E/Argon... and it uses a conductive aluminum spacer. An additional coating of Low-E and a warm edge spacer will not drop it's U-factor from .37 to .20.
Maybe I found the wrong window? Please post the site or docs you may have. I am curious.
Their site shows a U-Factor of .37 for a double hung utilizing dbl-pane/Low-E/Argon... and it uses a conductive aluminum spacer. An additional coating of Low-E and a warm edge spacer will not drop it's U-factor from .37 to .20.
Maybe I found the wrong window? Please post the site or docs you may have. I am curious.
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usmarine0352
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- Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:35 pm
That is the correct site.
Did you see the part section of that website that said:
"Higher performance may be achieved by using various glass coatings, inert gasses, and/or warm edge spacers."
It's there on the page. We don't normally use the single low-e, argon with the aluminum spacer they tested.
They have many glass options, including Triple Pane with Krypton and also Heat Mirror.
Did you see the part section of that website that said:
"Higher performance may be achieved by using various glass coatings, inert gasses, and/or warm edge spacers."
It's there on the page. We don't normally use the single low-e, argon with the aluminum spacer they tested.
They have many glass options, including Triple Pane with Krypton and also Heat Mirror.