SCHUCO UPDATE

[buddy]

Well until one of the dealers answers my simple question I have no reason to doubt Schuco.

Please restate your question. I'm sure I can answer it.

[insiderinfo]

Does it make sense that they are going out of business?

http://www.windowanddoor.net/latestnews.php?id=2541

Did you say going out of business? I am sure you meant to correctly say "sell the business" right?

At this point I would have to suggest to anyone window shopping that it might be a good idea to look somewhere else for info, this board is rapidly becoming a place for disgruntled dealers to post their propoganda....

This should be a board to give windows shoppers unbiased information about different windows. If you choose to "push" your preferred brand that is very understandable as one would assume it is your preferred brand because you think it is the best. But for you guys to run down and lie about a company like this, there absolutely has to be something going on that you are not talking about. [/b]

I'll try to answer some of your questions, and refute some of your statements.

Normally, when a company sells a business, the name or at least the brand is retained, as the brand usually is a tangible asset. In this case, the Schuco name will disappear when the plant assets are sold. So the "Schuco" name as it is associated with vinyl windows will be gone. Name, goodwill , trademarks, all the things normally associated with a business selling is believed NOT part of the sale. Just the plant, equipment and window design, which will then be renamed.

I don't believe this board is a propaganda mouth piece for disgruntled dealers. I believe it is a window forum where many, many different brands are discussed. Just take a look at the discussion board and count how many window questions are asked and answered that don't have a thing to do with Schuco. Good, solid information from people who are informed and are contributing. Schuco just happens to be VERY worthy of attention at the moment on a few threads.

How can you say that postings about Schuco are lies? How do you know they are lies? If Schuco has paid attention to this forum, and I know they have, and they fell there are lies being desimminated here, don't you think they would defend themselves? To date there has not been one single posting from anyone representing Schuco. Does that tell you anything? Your only experience with Schuco has been very limited, in comparison to others, including some homeowners, that are simply posting their experience of late with Schuco-USA L.P.

[buddy]

Insiderinfo is 100% correct. Schuco's name, TPS glazing, inlune sliders, all gone. Parts and pieces will not be available, warrantee gone. dearlers screwed.

I for one, and I'm sure many will attest to the same, spent hundreds of thousands of advertising dollars name branding this product. I would like that back please, Mr. Schuco.

[Window4U (IL)]

Normally, when a company sells a business, the name or at least the brand is retained, as the brand usually is a tangible asset. In this case, the Schuco name will disappear when the plant assets are sold. So the "Schuco" name as it is associated with vinyl windows will be gone. Name, goodwill , trademarks, all the things normally associated with a business selling is believed NOT part of the sale. Just the plant, equipment and window design, which will then be renamed.

The Schuco brand is a worldwide brand and couldn't be assimilated by a company buying one plant. They sold a division, not the whole company so it's not possible even if they wanted to. Plus, why would Four Seasons, a brand much more widely known than Schuco, want to keep the Schuco name anyway? They are trying to bolster their brand, not Schuco's brand.

The company is going to stay in the same plant ( it's been decided), and are offering the Schuco dealers Four Seasons Windows dealerships next week. And while I don't know specific details yet, I was also told negotiations with Four seasons are in process regarding the warranty for past customers. So much for your dire predictions...

And as far as service goes, I've gotten my replacement sashes for a couple stress cracks I have had as well as a few things that I ordered wrong ...delivered to me in just 2 weeks since this sale was announced. I'm not having problems with getting anything.

I don't believe this board is a propaganda mouth piece for disgruntled dealers.

LOL, you're funny. While some dealers who have posted here are just concerned because of info being scarce to none regarding things that we all want to know, the people who chimed in on 'the massacre' when this was announced are all disgruntled ex-dealers who definitely have axes to grind. I know every one of them, who they are and what their motives are. As for you, you are a disgruntled former Schuco Rep, we understand that. We've all been pissed off one time or another and wanted to go after our ex-bosses.
My sincere advice is to move on with your life and get this "destroy Schuco" chip off your shoulder. If you didn't get your bonus or whatever, that's terrible. But, get over it and move on.

The sky's not falling as the poster quite accurately said. But.., I suppose if a dealer has a bunch of screwed up installations and can't figure out how to fix them, then I suppose the sky is falling for him. I personally know of a dealer in Illinois who was only a dealer for about a year, but has a couple dozen screwed up Schuco jobs. I've gotten calls from a couple of their customers in the south suburbs and I've seen the installations myself. They are not product related even though this company has given up trying to fix them and blames Schuco. From what I saw a reinstall is needed and is all that is wrong. They didn't even shim them.
I just wonder how often this type of thing gets pawned off as "bad product". You can order new sashes 10 times and they are not going to fix a bad installation.

[Window4U (IL)]

Parts and pieces will not be available, warrantee gone.

Incorrect. They are required by law to keep parts in stock in sufficient quantities for any future warranty claims.

[buddy]

hmmm, You know me? You know what my motives are? Enlighten me, please. Enlighten the entire board! No let me enlighten you. I have no axe to grind. I have thousands of customers to take care of. I fear for them and my reputation.

Let me repeat. What Schuco is required to do and what they will do are not the same. They have been under handed and unethical.

I hate to tell rock your world but it seems that you are the only one who has no issues, no services, no poor product, and wonderful CS with Schuco. Well, you're not in Kansas anymore toto. Wake up!

[Delaware Mike]

Buddy,

Did you see an even amount of problems with all of the Schuco products? Or, was it with most of the new Euro stuff?

[pbiancardi]

Well until one of the dealers answers my simple question I have no reason to doubt Schuco.

Please restate your question. I'm sure I can answer it.

My question has been asked multiple times in this thread:

Am I to believe that Schuco, without cause or reason, will not deliver parts to some dealers? Did someone there just wakeup one day and decide to service some dealers and not others?

[Window4U (IL)]

hmmm, You know me? You know what my motives are? Enlighten me, please.

I wasn't talking about you.
If you are pissed about money spent on advertising, then I understand that. I am just as upset because of what I have invested.
But, to preach doom and gloom to all our Schuco customers when you don't have a DAMN idea of what plans are in process to take care of the customers is irresponsible.

[Windows on Washington]

Why doesn't everybody in here actually take a few seconds before firing off more posts and understand that this is the impression that we leave with the customers.

Window4U and Fenex are two very well respected posters and previous Schuco proponents. It also appears that both have very different impressions about how Schuco is handling the transition.

I have spoken to several dealers and past employees and despite how things are going to be handled in the future, I doubt anyone can dispute that things were handled poorly to date as far as issues surronding the sale and transitions. At the very minimum, the company dealing have seemed very underhanded and secretive between the announcement of their sale an Schucos previous abandonment of the vinyl market in Europe which was kept very quiet.

Since the bloom has been taken off the Schuco rose, we are starting to hear many more issues about product performance and service from multiple sources...is this compounded by harsh feeling...I am sure to some extent.

Regardless of the outcome, I would like to see people begin to deal in facts that they know and as adults and professionals.

[insiderinfo]

Widows4U
I think that without question, you should, but can't, admit that much said in this forum about bad service, poor quality, and sloppy workmanship is true. You know that the reason you are now getting your service parts in a miraculous two weeks is that A. Schuco is a shadow of their former selves in terms of volume so they may have a little extra time to make things for you and B. Why would they not support their magnificent mouthpiece?
You act like the "propaganda minister" for Schuco. I'm sure Herr Hendrics will pin an Iron Cross on your chest for your efforts, but it's time you admitted what has actually gone on in the past. I know, I saw countless Schuco dealers complain endlessly to no avail. Is there a reason that Schuco had lost a significant percentage of their dealer base PRIOR to the now legendary announcement? I wonder..hmmm.Could it have been been due to the issues now coming to light? The Schuco rep. that had your territory lost almost every new Schuco account he ever personally opened due to these issues.

You yourself know that Schuco lost many, many dealers prior to the sale being announced, long before the announcement. If everything was so great why would they leave for other suppliers?

In case you have not noticed, I'm only one of a dozen or more chiming in on this issue. So spare me your disgrunteled employee accusation attempt at discrediting me or anyone else on this forum.

The numbers are against you.

Truth Sir, is a friend of Honesty.

[Window4U (IL)]

Oh yeah, I totally agree that for a couple years their customer service sucked. I didn't see a major improvement in my orders until 6 months ago, but it was too late for them by then.
There were times I would order a part 4 times and get the wrong part every time because of some idiot at the factory couldn't put the right part on the truck. But, I still felt (and still do) it was the best window on the market and that's why I and many dealers suffered through the service department problems, always hoping the service parts department would get better.
There is also no argument from me that 100% of the reason for this sale was because of the dealers they lost because of this. The reason Schuco gave for the sale about the downturn in the entire vinyl business was totally bogus.
I've said it all here before and I haven't argued with any of the reasons why it happened.

What I have a problem with is you are not hurting Schuco with all this garbage talking. This campaign of yours and others seems targeted at our existing customers to make them fearful that they are going to get screwed over somehow. I think it is irresponsible and horrible for any of you to scare these people when none of you have a damn clue about what is currently being done to ensure the warranty is honored.
If you want to insult me and make fun of me and call me a Schuco mouthpiece because I am trying to reassure existing customers that they will be taken care of, then so be it. From what I know I have no doubt in my mind they will be taken care of on future warranty claims.

On another note, I'm really disappointed in you that you would attack me like this on a personal level. You are not the affable and noble man I always thought of you as.

[buddy]

Buddy,

Did you see an even amount of problems with all of the Schuco products? Or, was it with most of the new Euro stuff?

SPD and DH's mostly and of course inline sliders. I never sold a single euro product. However, it didn't end there. Terrible CS, bills mis-priced, windows shipped wrong or broken, 8-10 week lead times, Show booths and trailers promised but never delivered, no cummunication on product changes. We had one customer who recieved inline sliders with the new, fatter bulb seals. The lady coudn't close the windows. I was never allerted to the change. In my showroom sits one with the original bulbs. She loved it. I had to replace every slider with a casement. I could go on and on. Like window 4u stated I DID in fact believe they were "potentially" the best window available. Problem is they never realized that potential.

[buddy]

On another note, I'm really disappointed in you that you would attack me like this on a personal level. You are not the affable and noble man I always thought of you as.

I did not attck you personally my friend. You said you know my motives and I corrected you. Don't take anything I said personally.

The fact is Schuco is doing this the wrong way, period! How you can defend them is amazing to me, and the rest of the board.

I was with great lakes for years. They were sold twice during that time. The sale never caused an issue with anything. To this day they service me with no questions asked. If a window sash fails they send me an entirely new window, because thier profile has changed. No questions no hassles, and the get it right the first time. This won't happen with Schuco, it can't for reasons that have been sighted numerous times on this and the sister board.

I am one of many who are mad as hell about this. My customers deserve better. If that bothers you then I'm sorry.

[WindDoze]

Well until one of the dealers answers my simple question I have no reason to doubt Schuco.

pbiancardi
I applaud you on your appreciation for the Schuco windows you had installed in your home. The window was (and I use that word on purpose) the best engineered replacement window on the market. It sounds like you bought them from a reputable dealer who gave you exactly what you expected -- a top quality window, installation and after install service. Unfortunately, as a consumer the issues that are being discussed in this post, are invisible to you -- right now. God forbid you have a service problem 3-5 years down the road -- because unless your dealer cannibalizes his bone yard for parts, there will be no guarantee replacement parts will be available.

I've been a loyal Schuco dealer for over 4 years in one of the larger markets in the Midwest. In the interest of full disclosure I'm also a Four Seasons Sunroom franchise. Over the last 4 years my company has spent literally hundreds of thousands of dollars building the Schuco brand in my market. We had a year long radio campaign, using the top afternoon drive time personality in the city pushing the Schuco name! There are others on this board who've made even larger investments. That money is gone now that the Schuco name is disappearing. No matter what window I choose to sell, I'm at ground zero in terms of building a new brand and associating it with my company.

I think what has so many dealers infuriated is finding out that this deal has been in the works for over a year. Schuco literally was negotiating the sale of the assets of the company -- not the company itself mind you, while at the same time telling dealers like us how committed they were to building a long term partnership. Edgar Freund himslef told a roundtable group of large dealers that Schuco's goal was to be the number one window in America within 10 years. Haughty stuff I thought, but it made it sound like they were committed to building something great, and that is what we all bought into.

You seem to have a hard time believing that Schuco actually would withhold shipments of product to their dealers. I can tell you from first hand experiance that is exactly the case. The word that comes to mind is extortion when describing their business practices over the last few months. I won't go into the details here, as they seem to be covered by FenEx, Windows4U and others. Suffice it to say Schuco has hurt a lot of people with this. That's why all the bashing. Check my posts pal, with deference to FenEx I've been a long time advocate of Schuco on these boards as well. It hurts that it has come to this.