Replacement windows as new installs

[Stapler]

I will be replacing all the windows in my house and you know how expensive good windows can be.
I came across 12 new replacement windows at a local liquidation store that will take care of all but four of the windows in my house.
The problem is that the new windows are not exactly the same size as the originals. Some are taller and narrower and some are wider etc. which means that the old windows and their frames will have to come out.
I have no problem reframing the window openings or refinishing inside and out once the windows are installed. The problem is how to install these window so they don't leak! I live in an area that gets a goog bit of rain in the winter. Not heavy rain but steady.

The new windows are vinyl replacements and I'm thinking that I should install them as new construction...? From the outside the windows will be inset an inch and a half or so because of the flange being flush on the front. I will also have a narrower sill inside. Both of which I'm good with.

Any insight?

Thanks for your help.

[tru_blue]

Vinyl replacements typically do not have any flanges. They are intended to go into existing window frames without a flange because they go between the stops of the existing windows. Are you sure they're replacements? Also, I can't quite picture what you mean by "inset."

[Stapler]

Hmm. If the window was slid into the opening this "flange" would go over the siding and be the finish trim you would see from the outside.
I assume these are replacement windows because it seems there would have to be an existing flange from an old window under the siding that these windows would slide through....? If not, how would these be installed and not leak?

If I install these windows flush with the house the front of the window will be even with the wall. Once I put trim around the window for the siding to butt against, the window will be inset compared to the siding and trim.

Does this make sense?

[windowmannjny]

why dont you return them to the store where you bought them from and use windows that will actually fit the openings correctly. Who is the manufacturer of these windows? You may be using a low end vinyl window anyway.

[Skydawggy.]

You are getting ready to buy yourself a big headache trying to make improperly sized windows fit an opening. My best advice to you is to return these windows and order some that are the correct size.

[DWS]

The window you are describing sounds alot like the replacement windows used on the west coast. These windows are standard vinyl replacement windows with a large flange on the outside edge of the windows called a stucco fin. Some companies prefer not to damage existing stucco by removing the aluminum frames of the old windows, so instead they remove the glass and CMR and jump the old frames. The flange is heavily backcaulked and pressed up to the stucco. The interior is finished with quick trim or a like product. If these are the windows you are talking about it would be very hard to make them work, having a water tight install and still looking good. For a little more $$ you can buy a decent window that is designed to what you want to do and not look like a patch job, beside the money save on framing and sheetrock work will more than likely justify purchasing the correct size windows.
JD

[tru_blue]

Sorry, I can't even picture how these would fit into your existing openings. If I had vinyl windows with a flange flush to the outside of the window (which I think is what you're describing), I'd either donate them or maybe try to sell them on Craig's List, hoping someone could use them in a playhouse, gazebo, shed, etc.

Replacement windows usually do not have flanges (as previously mentioned), and new construction windows typically have a flange with approx. 1-1/4" to 1-1/2" of the window projecting out past the flange on the exterior, so that siding or trim would be able to butt up against it. There are windows out there with a flange flush with the outside of the window unit; they're usually used for replacement windows with stucco openings and overlap the stucco opening, with only insulation and caulk between the window & stucco preventing water from infiltrating the home. Scary. And that's if they are made to fit the opening.

In your case, with trying to use the flush flange windows in your existing sash openings, especially when the sizes are not exact, you're undoubtedly going to have problems. I don't think there's a contractor on this board that would attempt to use those windows on your home; we'd walk away.

Now if you're building a playhouse for your kids, that's another story!

[Stapler]

The window you are describing sounds alot like the replacement windows used on the west coast. These windows are standard vinyl replacement windows with a large flange on the outside edge of the windows called a stucco fin.

This is exactly what I have. Thanks DWS.

The windows cannot be returned because I bought them from a liquidation center. They are low-E argon windows and are definitely not low end.

As for the installation, think about this: The flange, or fin, on these windows is no different than the flange on a new construction window, other than it is at the front instead of toward the middle of the frame. It can be caulked around the top and sides and flashed. Moulding can be installed around the window for the siding to butt against just like a wood window.
How would you install a wood window anyway? If there is pre-installed moulding wouldn't you caulk around the opening and install the window, drip cap, and siding? Or, attach a nail fin and do the same thing?

It sems to me it's all in how you look at it.

Thanks for all the reponses so far!

[tru_blue]

A wood window with a wood exterior normally has a brickmould exterior trim that you nail through to install the window. That brickmould is 1-1/4" thick. A wood window with a clad exterior and a nailing fin has the fin about 1-1/4" set back from the exterior. In both cases, any siding has approx. 1-1/4" of window/window trim to butt against (either the clad frame or the wood brickmould). You can use what you have and use that flush flange as the nailing fin (don't crack it). Then put some trim on top of or next to the flange (again, don't crack it) to create some depth for siding to butt up against. Seeing as the windows were not made for the openings that you have, you'll have more work than normal to hopefully make them fit right and look somewhat normal.

[Stapler]

I thought I might drill holes in the flange to avoid the possibility of a crack. I was thinking of something a little wider than brick mould. Something that will cover most of the flange but allow me to nail into the wall without going through the flange. I may rabbet the inside of the trim so that it goes over the flange but sits firmly on the wall.

Thanks for your input tru_blue.

[Guy]

I think I've been gone to long. Most of these type of questions would have had about ten different answers with only a couple making any sense. I see only the logical have survived. I've been working so many hours that I don't hardly remember what my computer looks like. I'm forcing myself out of the field more to save lives (meaning I won't push stupid people down in the field). Hiring installers that really know how to work consistently, has been a stroke in progress to say the least. I swear to the almighty one that todays work force has been educated by an alien nation. Nobody wants to work anymore, and they want to get paid to do it. Life goes on though!

Mr. Stapler,

After looking your question over, it sounds like you have a lot of work to do. In most cases the window your speaking of comes with two fins here in the Northland. You would have a nailing fin (with holes) under an extruded brickmould or J-bead. It's primarily used here instead of the standard siding type of j-bead. All the siding will go into this slot the same way as the j-bead. I find it puzzling that you only have one type of fin on your windows. These type of windows wouldn't cut it up here because of the temperature changes. If your dead set on using these windows don't drill holes in the flange!! This will just give you another possible leakage point.

When you have the opening completed back caulk the fin where it hits the wall. I'd even recommend using some type of house wrap or flashing tape to pre-wrap the opening. This will help prevent some damage if you get a leaker. Make sure you get a good seal to the wall and use screws through the shims like you would to attach a pocket replacement unit. I'd tape off the outside with a good window tape (flashing) and then apply a vinyl brickmould on top. I don't think I've read anything about the exterior of the house. Hopefully it's something that can be removed easily and put back up when finished.

This is definitely something out of the normal and I agree wouldn't be closely attempted by any of us who do this daily. Take your time and ask questions if you get stuck. Good Luck!!!

[tru_blue]

Welcome back Guy!

[Stapler]

Guy,

After a closer inspection of the windows, it appear there was a nail fin on these windows. Maybe that's why the previous owner didn't return them to the store where purchased! Either way they're mine now!

I'd tape off the outside with a good window tape (flashing) and then apply a vinyl brickmould on top

I've already installed one window and it seems you and I are on the same track. I used flashing tape in the opening, caulk, screws throught the shims, and alot of umpf to get that sucker tight to the wall! I was going to use the same flashing tape for the outside (GAF Storm Seal)...? Or is there a thinner window tape that will provide a water tight seal?

As for the exterior of the house, it's 8" cedar channel siding. Some of which will be replaced due to the age and lack of upkeep from the previous owners.

Thanks for your input!