I'm trying to educate myself as much as possible about windows and I'm hoping you all can help.
We just bought a 39-year old house. 21 windows - all Andersen. 16 of them original to the house. 5 of them replaced with Andersen windows in the last 5 years. The older windows all need some sort of repair...either there is condensation that builds up on them or the string that pulls the sashes up and down is broken. On most of the windows, the plasticky rail where the screen slides up and down is broken.
The Andersen rep came by last week and quoted $12K to replace all the older windows with an insert installation (vs. full frame). Double-hung,grilles between the glass,white trim windows - their new Fibrex stuff.
The Pella guy came out today and his quote was $20K to replace all the older windows but with a full frame installation. I could get window sills (yippee...I hate that my current windows don't have window sills). He quoted me the Designer Triple Pane (current promotion to get triple pane for the same price as double pane), Low E and Argon, muntins between the glass, basic white windows.
These are only two quotes and I'm already mystified. The Andersen guy told me it was a bad idea to do the full frame redo...the Pella guy told me it was a bad idea not to. The Andersen guy said aluminum clad wood windows were a bad idea...the Pella guy said Fibrex was untested. How on earth am I going to make a decision when I've only contacted two dealers?
Should I just repair the windows and call it a day? That would be my husband's vote...I, however, have been enticed by tilt-in windows...windows that work and windows that block those harmful UV rays...
My head is spinning and I only have two quotes so far!
Which is better, full frame or insert windows? It depends on the construction of your home.
- For standard 2x4 construction with drywall on the interior it is with very few exceptions better to replace the frame.
- For very old homes with plaster walls and original trim that would be difficult to duplicate it's better to insert the windows into the existing frame.
There are other factors to consider in homes in your age group. But since you want to replace the trim anyway, I would assume that full frame would be better in your case. But I haven't seen your home. I don't think you're done shopping. Get someone who you trust to tell you about the pros and cons of each.
A few thoughts:
We tear out a lot of window frames that had no insulation put in by the builder. With full replacement you can be sure that the new window will be insulated.
The old frame may have a lot of rot. While many companies claim that they will repair rotted wood before they insert the new window, I would doubt that all of them follow through.
The house may have settled, making some of the openings uneven. Many windows are inserted into cockeyed frames.
With full replacement you can install a window that is the same size as the original. When you insert windows, by definition you lose glass size since you're putting a smaller frame inside the existing frame. Some inserted windows will cause a loss of glass of 1" on each side but I've seen some that cause a loss of over 2" on each side. With larger windows you won't notice the loss very much but some smaller windows really look terrible with an insert.
Cost is a factor, of course. It takes far less labor to insert a window so that method is usually a lot less expensive.
- For standard 2x4 construction with drywall on the interior it is with very few exceptions better to replace the frame.
- For very old homes with plaster walls and original trim that would be difficult to duplicate it's better to insert the windows into the existing frame.
There are other factors to consider in homes in your age group. But since you want to replace the trim anyway, I would assume that full frame would be better in your case. But I haven't seen your home. I don't think you're done shopping. Get someone who you trust to tell you about the pros and cons of each.
A few thoughts:
We tear out a lot of window frames that had no insulation put in by the builder. With full replacement you can be sure that the new window will be insulated.
The old frame may have a lot of rot. While many companies claim that they will repair rotted wood before they insert the new window, I would doubt that all of them follow through.
The house may have settled, making some of the openings uneven. Many windows are inserted into cockeyed frames.
With full replacement you can install a window that is the same size as the original. When you insert windows, by definition you lose glass size since you're putting a smaller frame inside the existing frame. Some inserted windows will cause a loss of glass of 1" on each side but I've seen some that cause a loss of over 2" on each side. With larger windows you won't notice the loss very much but some smaller windows really look terrible with an insert.
Cost is a factor, of course. It takes far less labor to insert a window so that method is usually a lot less expensive.
Dean...thank you...
My decision may be made for me as we have a basement leak that's looking more and more like it might be eating up our window budget.
Sigh...I guess I figured that I was nowhere near done on research. My problem is that I don't know anyone in my area that can give me the pros and cons that isn't a windows salesman.
I appreciate your insight and will continue to do more research.
Thanks.
Sigh...I guess I figured that I was nowhere near done on research. My problem is that I don't know anyone in my area that can give me the pros and cons that isn't a windows salesman.
I appreciate your insight and will continue to do more research.
Thanks.
Just because someone is a window salesman doesn't mean that he can't give you an honest evaluation. You should get a few more quotes from legitimate companies. Something tells me that you'll find someone who will explain your situation and will be able to back up what he says in layman's terms.
You can e-mail pictures of your windows (one from the inside, one from the outside) and I can tell you how I would approach the installation. Dean6100@yahoo.com
You can e-mail pictures of your windows (one from the inside, one from the outside) and I can tell you how I would approach the installation. Dean6100@yahoo.com
I would get a few more quotes if I were you. Explore all your options, and then make a decision. As far as replacing the existing frames, their may be damage and rot in there already that cannot be seen from the outside. Remember when you consider, that aluminum is a much stronger and more durable product thatn vinyl.
be careful
I know you're new to the site engine32, but don't start putting down vinyl or you'll start a whole new firestorm like the one on Pella windows.
Dean...thank you for that very kind offer. I'll take some pictures this weekend (I usually don't get home until dark so the outside shots will have to wait until then) and then email them to you. I never did answer your earlier question about the construction of the home..it's standard 2x4 construction with drywall on the interior. More and more, I'm starting to think we should just install new windows ourselves (I mean we've renovated a bathroom ... we can do windows right 
)
Engine32 and Randy...don't make me split you two up
Sorry, the mom in me coming out. I have two boys and I'm constantly saying that!
)Engine32 and Randy...don't make me split you two up
Sorry, the mom in me coming out. I have two boys and I'm constantly saying that!Re: be careful
Ahh shucks, I like vinyl, makes good plumbing pipe, ain't much good for truck seats though, too sticky in summertime. I hear that Shuco vinyl is hard to beat, as for them Pella boys, well, to quote an old movie I once saw, "Some men, you just can't reach".Randy wrote:I know you're new to the site engine32, but don't start putting down vinyl or you'll start a whole new firestorm like the one on Pella windows.
I must say that trying to retrofit an existing Andersen is pretty ambitious.
I bet the salesman had a hard time keeping a straight face.
LORD I APOLOGIZE...........
Like Fen ex said every situation is different but just from picturing it i would lean towards a full frame replacement. Which brand? Now that depends what is available to you..the window track record and what rubs you the right way.
E-z
I bet the salesman had a hard time keeping a straight face.
LORD I APOLOGIZE...........
Like Fen ex said every situation is different but just from picturing it i would lean towards a full frame replacement. Which brand? Now that depends what is available to you..the window track record and what rubs you the right way.
E-z